Greetings
all,
I am writing from my
self-imposed exile. All is well here on the island of
Patmos.
Just a quick note for
this conversation which I have re-titled as I am afraid that the point is
being missed and that there is a lot of talking past one
another.
What Lance, Terry and
Izzy are saying are all flying past one another. I do think that
moralism and Christianity are diametrically opposed. Bill could write
all this up much better than myself. Perhaps he will correct where I am
off here. My apologies for using the Canadian/British spelling of
behaviour. J
Lance is saying that
there is no hope, no life, no godliness in moralism. Moralism is the
practice of moral behaviour. Moral behaviour is taught by society.
What we determine to be moral as a nation may not be what another nation may
think (I wrote about how having a mistress in Malta is considered by many of
the populace as normal, whereas having a mistress in North America is
considered adultery). In our lifetimes we are seeing a wide swing
regarding homosexuality; it is moving from being considered immoral to moral
(i.e. acceptable). When my father was young chewing gum in school was
considered immoral.
The problem with
moralism (keeping good social morals) is that it is completely disconnected
from God. Morals properly placed in a subjective manner to God are
good. For example, the Torah laws are good as long as they are placed
subservient to the lawgiver God. To just follow the laws apart from a
relationship with God earns one nothing but it does give the illusion of
progress (i.e the Pharisees followed the laws and were indeed legally
righteous; what they missed was the lawgiver � this is moralism. It is
no more new today than it was then). In other words, morality (which can
be defined as good behaviour, even desired holy behaviour) divorced from God
avails nothing but an illusion. The illusion itself is powerful.
It is this illusion that makes some think that we live in moral, godly
nations. The precepts our countries were built on have been detached
from a relationship with their Creator.
What the founding
fathers wrote is great stuff, as long as it is placed within the framework of
who God is. Without God, it turns into a legal matter, a moralistic
issue instead of a spiritual issue. In society it becomes moralism; in
the church it becomes religion.
Let me give another
quick example. Imagine that I behaved completely moral to my wife.
I did everything right, treated her kindly, never cheated on her and was
always polite. It would not take my wife long to see through me;
although I did nothing legally wrong to her, without the love that God has
placed in my heart for her my behaviour is empty. My behaviour was spot
on, my heart was not. Moralism is like this. My behaviour, while
noteworthy (others who saw how well I treated my wife would be jealous of our
marriage) lacked the basis in relationship.
Legislating moral
behaviour is a whole other post�..
Back to exile with
me!
Jonathan
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 5:23
PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Gay Marriage
Roll Call Vote
In a message dated 7/20/2004
9:05:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Lance,
I�ve been wanting to ask you this. Would you please clarify what it is
you have against �morality�? Please define morality. (To me it
means making moral choices vs immoral choices, which means choosing sinless
choices over sinful choices.) Izzy
A
great question. And your (Izzy) exchange with Bill was as
interesting to me as was Bill's comments. Did you change the color
of your hair?
;-)
John
