RE: [TruthTalk] 1 Cor. 10:8

[Slade Henson]

Title: jt: Did he see it or was he told it

jt: Did he see it or was he told it? We know from scripture that God speaks in various ways, some see visions, others have dreams but God himself said Moses was a friend to whom He spoke face to face (Exodus 33:11). Moses does not communicate it as though it were a vision. Hebrews tells us that the earthly tabernacle is a shadow of the heavenly or a picture of things to come.   Exodus 25.9. I do not believe it was a vision. I think He was cognizant, awake, in the flesh, and was able to see what only a handful of prophets after him were able to see.   jt: Inside the Holy of Holies is a "mercy seat" where the High Priest took the blood of animals on the "day of atonement" Where do you get the idea that it is a copy of the Heavenly throne?  People who get to heaven will have already received mercy - the throne or sacrifice they will have come to is Jesus who sits at the right hand of the Father.  He is our Heavenly tabernacle.   Woe, dudette! The remez (spiritual application — or an alterative understanding — of a text) is not the end of the story. There is still a Tabernacle and there is the “original” in Heaven. You can’t “spiritualize” it all away and call it Jesus. You can gain a “higher” understanding if you like, but the pashat (plain sense understanding of a text) is still there and it’s still valid. The remez, please note, is limited only by the imagination, and hopefully limited by interaction and discussion with other believers.   jt: It does matter because God told Moses to make everything "according to the pattern" he was given and in the text there is no room for anyone's imagination: "And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen shalt thou make it. Foursquare it shall be the length thereof and a span shall be the breadth thereof. And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four fows of stones; the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle; this shall be the first row.  And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond. And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst. And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper; they shall be set in gold in their inclosings. And the stones shall be with the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet; every one with his name shall they be according to the twelve tribes.   We still have no agreement on the design of the stones on the breastplate. We read the same text and come to different conclusions. A minor issue like this has nothing to do with me listening to a different spirit than you… it has to do with different backgrounds, mindsets, and worldviews.   jt: Slade I believe the way I do because it is written: "No prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation, for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man, but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" (2 Peter 1:2,21) (and this would include Moses)   But you came up with your own private interpretation on the Tabernacle above (finding Jesus in the Tabernacle) and you do so again here. Let me give you an idea about the 2 Peter 1 passage:   Another way of rendering the verse is: No prophecy of Scripture is to be interpreted by an individual on his own -- or -- No prophecy of Scripture comes from an individual’s own decision – but this rendering makes v. 20 the same thing as v. 21 and does not contribute to the ground being laid in verses 19-21 for the argument against the false prophets of Chapter 2. A prophesy of Scripture must be interpreted not on the basis of thoughts rooted in a person’s old nature, such as those of the false prophets of Chapter 2, but on the basis of what the Holy Spirit makes clear about its meaning, since Yeshua sent the Spirit to guide believers into the truth (John 16.13). Since He sent the Spirit to the believers as a community, be cautious of those who offer “the true word” but avoid subjecting their opinions to the scrutiny of other believers. Much false teaching, both in Peter’s day and our own, Arises from people’s developing their own idiosyncratic interpretations, supposedly hearing the Spirit of the Holy One but without examining other views or admitting that their own could be a mistake. Prophecies are not to be subjected to eisegesis but to exegesis. Moreover, the exegete ought not to make interpretation of prophesy a vehicle for self-aggrandizement and self-exaltation, gaining a reputation at the expense of perverting Holy Writ.   -- slade