I am very glad that G asked you to clarify what I had sent. You are not on track at all. The watchmaker and clock concept is pure deism. That of a Creator who creates and then steps back out of reach of His creation. His creation then runs self-sufficiently apart from the Creator. There is no continuing relation between the watchmaker and the clock. What you missed in my definition of divine and contingent order is that creation is 'upheld by its Creator' and that it 'relies upon Jesus Christ in Whom all things move and have their being.' It is a world that has all the ability to exist without direct intervention by God but is also in a relationship with its Creator Who sustains it. In this relationship God can at any time intervene.
Who is the Jesus that Lance, Baxter and I follow? He is the eternal Son of God who before the foundation of the world adopted us to be part of the relationship between the Father, Son and Spirit. Against the lie of separation that Satan administered in the Fall, Jesus clothed Himself with our humanity, cleansed it from within, was killed and rose from the dead to His Father with us carefully held in His hands. He now sits at the right hand of His Father continually interceding for us. We in turn participate in what He did for us. In another email you asked me what is an overcomer. The only overcomer is Jesus Christ. In all that He overcomes, we overcome. I never overcome anything that He does not overcome first. An overcomer is one who trusts in the work and person of Jesus Christ. Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 7:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm Hi G: Jonathan wrote: A contingent universe is one that is based upon and upheld by its Creator. It is created to run self-sufficiently but relies upon Jesus Christ in whom all things move and have their being. jt: I understand what he describes as something akin to the watchmaker and clock concept that came from "enlightenment thinking" ie "running self-sufficiently" I've never been able to figure out which Jesus Jonathan, Lance, and Baxter Kruger follow but I don't believe He is the same as the one I know. judyt --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 9/17/2004 ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
