On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:14:13 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Judy has said that one has absolutely no kind of relationship with God until and unless he is perfectly able to practice God's commandments against sin.jt: When did Judy say the above John? I've never said those words, these are your words, it is what you THINK I am saying and has nothing to do with what I believe or what I have actually stated.Is it true that our sins and iniquities separate us from God using Isa 59:2 as a reference?jt: Yes it is true that our sin and iniquity separates us from God..Well, we are told that God accepts faith as righteousness (Romans 4). And why would that be? If there is no sin or iniquity of any sort in our lives, we are righteous and have no need for the exchange of faith for righteousness. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive even ourselves (I JO 1:8) We have sinned and continue to fall short of the Glory (Rom 3:23.)jt: Since you are using faith to negate Isaiah 59:2 shouldn't we ask ourselves what faith is and what it's focus should be? Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness - but true faith always has corresponding action. Abraham packed up and left Ur of the Chaldees not knowing where he was heading in obedience to the Word of God. I don't argue that we are all sinners in need of mercy and grace at the start or that we continue to fall short of the glory of God. Where we differ seems to be in the area of the obedience that is the fruit of real faith.So, what of Isa 59:2? Ask youself this: does this passage exclude the necessity for a continuing sin sacrifice as defined by the Law? I say no. So sin continues, does it not?jt: Isa 59:2 says nothing one way or the other about sacrifice. This is your CofC teaching speaking to you. Isaiah is speaking to a covenant people who are lawless and covenant breakers for the reasons given in Vs.3 "their hands are defiled with blood, their fingers with iniquity, their lips have spoken lies and their tongues have muttered perverseness. None called for justice or pleaded for truth; they trusted in vanity and spoke lies, they conceived mischief and brought forth iniquity." It's possible to make the sacrifice and not be ableto receive the blessing... just as it is possible to proclaim Christ and by one's deeds deny Him.Isa 59:2 in light of the continuing need for sin sacrifice is speaking of an action on the part of the individuals involved, not of God's decision to exclude them.jt: Sin is deceitful John and we are the ones deceived. God will have no part with it and this is why He had to hide his face from His own son when He bare our sin on the cross.I fight or resist the sin issues I have in my life. If or when I decide to give in to them, to go my own way and revel in my sin, my sins and iniquities have separated me from my God. Romans 7:14-25 and Eph 4:14-24 paint a clear picture of one who struggles in a binary reality - two natures existing at the same time and influencing each other. To say that we have no relationship of any kind with God because of sin and iniquity is wrong.jt: I never said "No relationship OF ANY KIND" I have stated over and over and over that salvation is a walk of grace. We are all at different stages of learning to put off sin and put on the Lord Jesus Christ. The Church Jesus will return for, the one He presents to the Father will be without spot, wrinkle, or blemish. He is not going to present a filthy old spiritually adulterous harlot to the Father no matter whose doctrine says what....judytThe point of the cross is that our misdeeds are covered and remembered no more -- is it not?
Your view?
John
