On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 11:52:52 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In a message dated 1/1/2005 7:44:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
jt: I have no hidden meanings Lance, it is recorded in the book of Genesis and the results are evident all through the remaining 65 books. Without a fall the need for a redemption would be non existent.
JDS writes:
An interesting observation. It appears that Adam and his lovely, had the same emotions and weaknesses that are common to all.jt: Not so A&E were created as adults in the image of God who does not have the same emotions and weaknesses that are common to all. Eve was deceived by listening and responding to the wrong voice; Adam chose the lovely over God.What we see as the "fall" (a nonbiblical term, by the way) may be nothing more than what happened to people who were created to be just like the rest of mankind (except for that navel thingy) after the first legal "violation."jt: I see you also have a good imagination John. The words fall, falling, and fallen are all over the Bible but since you don't like it, how about the word transgression"?
If we could define "before the fall," we might have more agreement about "after the fall."jt: How about "before Adams transgression" when all died in him?I have to date, seen no biblical justification for the "fall."jt: Then God was unjust to condemn A&E and exclude them from His garden and the Tree of Life?Are we incomplete?jt: Of course - those outside of Christ are all dead while they live, spiritually dead.Do we all have need for further definition as humans and (a need) for a deeper walk with God? Absolutely.jt: Especially those who are not in any kind of walk with God to begin with [there is just ONE way to the Father]I believe that Adam and the Seventh Rib were never created as an end of a creation event.jt: This is conjecture and can only ever be speculation.This First Couple of Love were completed in the Incarnation.jt: Or the resurrection, since they were possibly some of the spirits who rose with him out of Paradise/Abraham's bosom; howeverthey were not incomplete before they fell.I would appreciate someone on this forum demonstrating otherwise, in scripture. Some of you know that I will listen.jt: Been doing this and you haven't listened so far.
