jt: I have no hidden meanings Lance, it is recorded in the book of Genesis and the results are evident all through the remaining 65 books. Without a fall the need for a redemption would be non existent.
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 11:52:52 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In a message dated 1/1/2005 7:44:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
JDS writes:
An interesting observation. It appears that Adam and his lovely, had the same emotions and weaknesses that are common to all.
jt: Not so A&E were created as adults in the image of God who does not have the same emotions and weaknesses that are common to all. Eve was deceived by listening and responding to the wrong voice; Adam chose the lovely over God.
Actually, the biblical message says that God created mankind in this "image"
What we see as the "fall" (a nonbiblical term, by the way) may be nothing more than what happened to people who were created to be just like the rest of mankind (except for that navel thingy) after the first legal "violation."
jt: I see you also have a good imagination John. The words fall, falling, and fallen are all over the Bible but since you don't like it, how about the word transgression"?
Would you take the time, Judy, to given me a scripture?
If we could define "before the fall," we might have more agreement about "after the fall."jt: How about "before Adams transgression" when all died in him?
We "die in Adam" because we have all sinned -- correct?
jt: Then God was unjust to condemn A&E and exclude them from His garden and the Tree of Life?
I have to date, seen no biblical justification for the "fall."
These are your words, not mine -- but even ti this were true, He made up for it in the Christ Event, didn't he?
jt: Of course - those outside of Christ are all dead while they live, spiritually dead.
Are we incomplete?
Have you completed the race or are you still in pursuit of that prize? Is God done with you?
jt: Especially those who are not in any kind of walk with God to begin with [there is just ONE way to the Father]
Do we all have need for further definition as humans and (a need) for a deeper walk with God? Absolutely.
So you agree with my statement above ending with "Absolutely." ????
jt: This is conjecture and can only ever be speculation.
I believe that Adam and the Seventh Rib were never created as an end of a creation event.
You don't think Christ's sacrifice reached back for those in olden times?
jt: Or the resurrection, since they were possibly some of the spirits who rose with him out of Paradise/Abraham's bosom; however
This First Couple of Love were completed in the Incarnation.
they were not incomplete before they fell.
And where do you find biblical reason for this statment?
jt: Been doing this and you haven't listened so far.
I would appreciate someone on this forum demonstrating otherwise, in scripture. Some of you know that I will listen.
Can one listen with consideration and honesty without agreeing?
John
