----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 6:28
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Eternal
Judgment
I have one or two questions
concerning this perceived "universally inclusive language" of
scripture.
1. Where does one find the word
"cadaver" in the scriptures to start with?
Hi Judy. "Cadaver" is a
metaphor, just like Paul's language of "being dead" is a metaphor
used to describe the inability of the saints at Colosse to have done
anything to effectuate their own salvation. As you know, a cadaver is a
dead person. Paul says that the saints to whom he wrote "were dead" but
Christ made them "alive" and forgave them; he also says that they
were given this life and forgiveness at the cross (2.13-14). Elsewhere he
writes that Christ made peace "through the blood of the cross"
(1.20).
Before answering the
questions below I would like to direct you back to the subject at hand. I was
very specific about what language I considered to be universally inclusive,
supplying the verses to which I spoke (Col 1.13-14, 16-17, 19-20; 2.9 and
13-15). Will you please go through these verses one by one and explain to me
why they are not universal in scope and intent?
To adequetaly address your
questions below, it would be necessary for me to set the stage by first
establishing the vicarious humanity of Christ -- what that that means, and why
it is so important. I have attempted to do this on numerous occasions,
each time to no avail: my impression is that you are just not willing to go
there (although Lance thinks you are unable). If you are interested and
willing to consider what I have to say, I will be glad to set that context;
from there we can begin to work through the effectual or salvific aspects of
atonement and the way in which we are to understand our active responses to
the gospel through such things as repentance, baptism, and
faith.
You can let me know.
By the way, I have already
addressed your third question. See below.
Have a nice
day.
Bill
2. Why did God send
John the Baptist into the wilderness to tell cadavers to repent and come up
with fruit showing they had done so before the axe was laid to the root of the
tree? Is God having John demand that these people do something that
is impossible for them under the
circumstances?
2. Why are Peter
and Paul told to do the same (Acts 3:19, 17:30,
26:20)
3. Does the so called "universally
inclusive language" negate the first two verses in the book of Colossians
which tell us who this letter is addressed to? "From Paul, an apostle of
Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at
Colosse...." or doessn't this make a difference? judyt
Perhaps, Izzy, it would do me good to have you
explain to me how the universally inclusive language of verses like Col
1.13-14, 16-17, 19-20; 2.9 and 13-15, apply only to those who have "repented
and received" Christ as Lord and Savior -- but not to those who have not.
You are correct that this letter is written to the
"saints," but I fail to see how Paul's language in the verses mentioned
above is inclusive only of them (it was after all while
even the saints of his address "were dead" that Christ made them alive
together with him, having forgiven them all their trespasses. What, pray
tell, can a cadaver do to activate her own salvation?). In fact, it looks to me that Paul intentionally expands
and then narrows his address repeatedly throughout the first two chapters of
this letter, sometimes referencing and including all of the created order
and other times speaking specifically to the ministry of Christ's
"body, which is the church." So please,
Izzy, set me straight
:>)
