John 3:21. Philip 2:12,13, John 6:44, Romans 2:14.
-----Original Message-----
From: Debbie Sawczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 23:41:14 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
I do not want to confuse the conscience with the Holy Spirit at any stage.
It is the Holy Spirit who reveals our condition to us, who convicts of sin. I do not mean pointing out individual transgressions to us (which acts are right and which are wrong). I mean giving our darkened minds an understanding that our humanity as it is is pervasively bent--that we are not in the proper relation to God and are in need of redemption. We can't know that without knowing who God is and who we are meant to be in relation to him. This is by the Holy Spirit.
Debbie
----- Original Message ----- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 10:14 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
>I am agreeing that the conscience which is out from under the governance of
> the Holy Spirit is unreliable. So I ask again upon what do you rely, if > not
> the conscience. What part of you "knows" the difference between right and
> wrong? iz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Debbie Sawczak
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 6:40 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
>
> Yes. We are actually saying similar things about the nature of sin, Izzy.
> And you are agreeing that our conscience is not reliable.
>
> Debbie
& gt;
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 8:08 AM
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
>
>
>> My point is that we could possibly be sinning w/o even being aware of it,
>> as
>> God determines what is really is, rather than Man. (Maybe we think we are
>> being God's spokesman while God considers us to be sinning?) iz
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Debbie Sawczak
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:56 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
>>
>> Jonathan said:
>>
>> grasping for autonomy
>>
>> I think this is the nub. We could add that instead of seeking autonomy we
>> might also willingly give ourselves over to some other god or power >> rather
>> than the Father.
>>
>> Trying to identify and box in sinful acts misses the point about sin. I
>> think it also backfires in that it gets us focussed on watching our step,
>> which is the same as focussing on ourselves--at least, it works that way
>> for
>>
>> me. I just heard someone say that Christian perfection is not success in
>> avoiding sinful acts, it is h aving our attention completely absorbed by
>> Christ.
>>
>> Debbie
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Terry Clifton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
>>
>>
>>> ShieldsFamily wrote:
>>>
>>>>Okay, I agree. But I guess my question is this: Can you write a >>>>sentence
>>>>defining what sin is??? izzy
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I can, but it is probably not the life changing information for which >>> you
>>> search.
>>>
> >> 1.Since God is angry with the sinner every day, sin is anything that
>>> angers God.
>>>
>>> 2.Many sins are committed in darkness, but never in secret, so sin is
>>> something that can often be hidden from men, but never from God/
>>>
>>> 3..Sometimes sin is doing or thinking the wrong thing while at other
>>> times
>>
>>> sin is not doing or thinking the right thing.
>>>
>>> 4. Sin is when men (or angels) serve self instead of God. It is making
>>> yourself master, usurping the authority of your creator.
>>>
>>> Nothing here worth carving in stone. Let's just say that when you've
>>> sinned, you know it.
>>>
>>> ----------
>>> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
>>> know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
>>> http://www.InnGlory.org
>>>
>>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
>>> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ----------
>> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
>> know
>> how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
>> http://www.InnGlory.org
>> < BR>>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
>> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------
>> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
>> know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
>> http://www.InnGlory.org
>>
>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
>> friend who wants to jo in, tell him to send an e-mail to
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>>
>>
>>
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > know
> how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
>
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, sea soned with salt, that you may > know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
>
>
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
It is the Holy Spirit who reveals our condition to us, who convicts of sin. I do not mean pointing out individual transgressions to us (which acts are right and which are wrong). I mean giving our darkened minds an understanding that our humanity as it is is pervasively bent--that we are not in the proper relation to God and are in need of redemption. We can't know that without knowing who God is and who we are meant to be in relation to him. This is by the Holy Spirit.
Debbie
----- Original Message ----- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 10:14 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
>I am agreeing that the conscience which is out from under the governance of
> the Holy Spirit is unreliable. So I ask again upon what do you rely, if > not
> the conscience. What part of you "knows" the difference between right and
> wrong? iz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Debbie Sawczak
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 6:40 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
>
> Yes. We are actually saying similar things about the nature of sin, Izzy.
> And you are agreeing that our conscience is not reliable.
>
> Debbie
& gt;
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 8:08 AM
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
>
>
>> My point is that we could possibly be sinning w/o even being aware of it,
>> as
>> God determines what is really is, rather than Man. (Maybe we think we are
>> being God's spokesman while God considers us to be sinning?) iz
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Debbie Sawczak
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:56 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
>>
>> Jonathan said:
>>
>> grasping for autonomy
>>
>> I think this is the nub. We could add that instead of seeking autonomy we
>> might also willingly give ourselves over to some other god or power >> rather
>> than the Father.
>>
>> Trying to identify and box in sinful acts misses the point about sin. I
>> think it also backfires in that it gets us focussed on watching our step,
>> which is the same as focussing on ourselves--at least, it works that way
>> for
>>
>> me. I just heard someone say that Christian perfection is not success in
>> avoiding sinful acts, it is h aving our attention completely absorbed by
>> Christ.
>>
>> Debbie
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Terry Clifton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
>>
>>
>>> ShieldsFamily wrote:
>>>
>>>>Okay, I agree. But I guess my question is this: Can you write a >>>>sentence
>>>>defining what sin is??? izzy
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I can, but it is probably not the life changing information for which >>> you
>>> search.
>>>
> >> 1.Since God is angry with the sinner every day, sin is anything that
>>> angers God.
>>>
>>> 2.Many sins are committed in darkness, but never in secret, so sin is
>>> something that can often be hidden from men, but never from God/
>>>
>>> 3..Sometimes sin is doing or thinking the wrong thing while at other
>>> times
>>
>>> sin is not doing or thinking the right thing.
>>>
>>> 4. Sin is when men (or angels) serve self instead of God. It is making
>>> yourself master, usurping the authority of your creator.
>>>
>>> Nothing here worth carving in stone. Let's just say that when you've
>>> sinned, you know it.
>>>
>>> ----------
>>> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
>>> know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
>>> http://www.InnGlory.org
>>>
>>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
>>> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ----------
>> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
>> know
>> how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
>> http://www.InnGlory.org
>> < BR>>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
>> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------
>> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
>> know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
>> http://www.InnGlory.org
>>
>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
>> friend who wants to jo in, tell him to send an e-mail to
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>>
>>
>>
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > know
> how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
>
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, sea soned with salt, that you may > know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
>
>
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
