Comments below:
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Perry wrote:
> I beleive the verse about preaching to all creatures to be parenthetical
to the rest of the passage, telling the apostles their commission, but not
changing the subject of his address, namely those whom he had just
upbraided for thier unbelief.
The verses leading up to and including verse 14 are a narrative spoken by
the author, John. John is the one who refers to the eleven as they
andthem. This is not Jesus addressing anyone.
Either you haved erred, or you need to explain this to me...I thought the
author was Mark.
Verse 15 starts with, "And HE said unto them..." I assume the antecedent
of "He" is Jesus. So after this phrase in verse 15, it is Jesus speaking,
up to but not including verse 19 where it says, "THEN AFTER THE LORD HAD
SPOKEN." Verse 19 resumes the narrative by John, and so the antecedent of
"they and them" switches back to the original, which would be the eleven.
So, when he says "YE" in verse 15, he is referring to the eleven, and
therefore "they or them" are referring to others to whom they preach. When
Jesus is speaking, he would use the word "YE" again if he meant to refer to
the eleven. Why start out talking to them saying "Go YE" but then switch
to saying THEY or THEM? Who speaks in this way, addressing a group and
instead of saying "YOU" says "THEY or THEM"? Or is it possible that you
assume that Jesus is not the one speaking in verses 16-18?
David, let me repeat the verses here with the antecedents embedded...perhaps
that will better show you what the Holy Spirit revealed to me:
(14) Afterward he [Jesus] appeared unto the eleven as they [the eleven] sat
at meat, and upbraided them [the eleven] with their [the eleven] unbelief
and hardness of heart, because they [the eleven] believed not them [the
Marys] which had seen him [Jesus] after he [Jesus] was risen.
(15) And he [Jesus] said unto them [the eleven], Go ye [the eleven] into all
the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
[It is important at this point to recall that Jesus has just upbraided the
apostles (v14) for their unbelief!]
(16) He [of the eleven] that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but
he [of the eleven] that believeth not shall be damned.
[notice in verse 17 that the focus changes from "the 11" to "those of the
eleven that believe" (which turned out to be all of them, I believe). It is
no longer proper to refer to them as "ye" since "they" and "them" now refers
to a subset of "ye". He cannot say "ye" without implying ALL of the 11!]
(17) And these signs shall follow them [of the elven] that believe; In my
name shall they [those of the eleven that believe] cast out devils; they
[those of the eleven that believe] shall speak with new tongues;
(18) They [those of of the eleven that believe] shall take up serpents; and
if they [those of of the eleven that believe] drink any deadly thing, it
shall not hurt them [those of of the eleven that believe]; they [those of of
the eleven that believe] shall lay hands on the sick, and they [those of of
the eleven that believe] shall recover.
(19) So then after the Lord had spoken unto them [the eleven], he [Jesus]
was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
(20) And they [the eleven] went forth, and preached every where, the Lord
working with them [the eleven], and confirming the word with signs
following. Amen.
That is how it was revealed to me.
As to your earlier reference to Luke 10:19 (in a different post) about the
70 treading on serpents...the 70 were given a similar commision as was given
to the 11...so it makes sense that they would receive similar powers.
We cannot assume that if Jesus gave certain powers to the 11, or to the
seventy, that it automatically means all Christians would have those same
powers. If it states elsewhere that all Christians are given certain powers,
then so be it. But when he is talking to the 11, or to the seventy...that is
to whom is giving the powers. (If you still doubt me, go drink some poison,
play with some poisonous snakes and scorpions, or walk out in front of a
speeding vehicle. Do you look left and right before crossing the road? If
so, doesn't that show a lack of faith in Luke 10:19 and Luke 16:18)
Also, notice that verse 20 affirms my understanding by stating that the
Apostles did indeed confirm the gospel with the powerss they were
given...why does it not affirm that those to whom the gospel was preached
exhibited those signs?
I think we have covered everything and each know what our differences are.
There is only one thing left to be resolved...which of us was led to our
understanding by the Holy Spirit? You? Me? Neither? (We have agreed that we
both could not be led to our respective conclusions by the Holy Spirit.)
Perry
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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