On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 10:32 AM Steve Timko <[email protected]> wrote:
I should probably go through and read the post more carefully, but what it > looks like to me is that Ansari thought he was going to get laid and when > that got shut down he tried to see what he could get away with. What was > she expecting? > ********************** I think she probably did not expect to get finger-fuc*** without her permission. I have been married for 30 years, so its a long time since I was on a first date with a woman hoping to get laid. Perhaps I am forgetting the difficulties. But I know it is not just in the last six months that I have been telling young men (including my 20 year old son), that you should not touch a woman’s genitals without clear, explicit permission. There is probably more to good dating etiquette, but I think we can at least start there. THis story does read like both parties pretty much agree on the details of what happened, and have radically different interpretations of them. He thought he was being charming and seductive and sophisticated, she thought he was being creepy and demanding and controlling. He is a famous celebrity in his 30s, she is a young woman in her early 20s. I believe that he did not have the understanding at all of “I am sexually assualting this woman.” I also believe he was coming horrifically close to doing so. If an adult man and adult woman are on a date, and she agrees to kiss, and after a while his hands slip inside her bra or panties, and he asks her to perform various sexual acts, this is probably not rape. At some point, if she says no, or stop, or moves his hand away, or says she wants to do something else, and he persists, it is rape. I am not prepared to say that if the man tries the second time after the date first seemed willing, then seemed reluctant, that he should be arrested for rape, but the third or fifth time, yeah, probably. I don’t know if Anzari is a rapist based on these reports, but he is way to close to it to continue to enjoy the same respect from me that he had before. HHere is the Babe story (not sure if this version was originally posted here) : https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355 Here is Anzari’s statement in response ( https://babe.net/2018/01/15/aziz-ansari-statement-28407): *“In September of last year, I met a woman at a party. We exchanged numbers. We texted back and forth and eventually went on a date. We went out to dinner, and afterwards we ended up engaging in sexual activity, which by all indications was completely consensual.* *"The next day, I got a text from her saying that although ‘it may have seemed okay,’ upon further reflection, she felt uncomfortable. It was true that everything did seem okay to me, so when I heard that it was not the case for her, I was surprised and concerned. I took her words to heart and responded privately after taking the time to process what she had said.* *"I continue to support the movement that is happening in our culture. It is necessary and long overdue.” – Aziz Ansar* > > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
