What appears to me to be the relevant paragraph:
"She says Ansari began making a move on her that he repeated during their
encounter. “The move he kept doing was taking his two fingers in a V-shape and
putting them in my mouth, in my throat to wet his fingers, because the moment
he’d stick his fingers in my throat he’d go straight for my vagina and try to
finger me.” Grace called the move “the claw.”"
There can be reasonable (dis)agreement about what constitutes an attempted act.
Absent some kind of legal action in this situation, however, I don't know how
much that matters.
David
On Sunday, January 14, 2018, 11:57:39 PM EST, Steve Timko
<[email protected]> wrote:
I read the article again. I don't see where they talk about digital penetration
of the vagina. Only of her mouth. He performed oral sex on her and that was
consensual and the night continued from there.On Jan 14, 2018, at 8:38 PM,
PGage <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 10:32 AM Steve Timko <[email protected]> wrote:
I should probably go through and read the post more carefully, but what it
looks like to me is that Ansari thought he was going to get laid and when that
got shut down he tried to see what he could get away with. What was she
expecting?
**********************I think she probably did not expect to get finger-fuc***
without her permission.
I have been married for 30 years, so its a long time since I was on a first
date with a woman hoping to get laid. Perhaps I am forgetting the difficulties.
But I know it is not just in the last six months that I have been telling young
men (including my 20 year old son), that you should not touch a woman’s
genitals without clear, explicit permission. There is probably more to good
dating etiquette, but I think we can at least start there.
THis story does read like both parties pretty much agree on the details of what
happened, and have radically different interpretations of them. He thought he
was being charming and seductive and sophisticated, she thought he was being
creepy and demanding and controlling. He is a famous celebrity in his 30s, she
is a young woman in her early 20s. I believe that he did not have the
understanding at all of “I am sexually assualting this woman.” I also believe
he was coming horrifically close to doing so.
If an adult man and adult woman are on a date, and she agrees to kiss, and
after a while his hands slip inside her bra or panties, and he asks her to
perform various sexual acts, this is probably not rape. At some point, if she
says no, or stop, or moves his hand away, or says she wants to do something
else, and he persists, it is rape. I am not prepared to say that if the man
tries the second time after the date first seemed willing, then seemed
reluctant, that he should be arrested for rape, but the third or fifth time,
yeah, probably.
I don’t know if Anzari is a rapist based on these reports, but he is way to
close to it to continue to enjoy the same respect from me that he had before.
HHere is the Babe story (not sure if this version was originally posted here) :
https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355
Here is Anzari’s statement in response
(https://babe.net/2018/01/15/aziz-ansari-statement-28407):
“In September of last year, I met a woman at a party. We exchanged numbers. We
texted back and forth and eventually went on a date. We went out to dinner, and
afterwards we ended up engaging in sexual activity, which by all indications
was completely consensual.
"The next day, I got a text from her saying that although ‘it may have seemed
okay,’ upon further reflection, she felt uncomfortable. It was true that
everything did seem okay to me, so when I heard that it was not the case for
her, I was surprised and concerned. I took her words to heart and responded
privately after taking the time to process what she had said.
"I continue to support the movement that is happening in our culture. It is
necessary and long overdue.” – Aziz Ansar
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