I have liked Ansari quite a bit, and hope to continue hearing from and about him. What is most important about this story has almost nothing to do with the journalistic qualities of the piece. Perhaps it is all BS (though his response thus far suggests it is not), perhaps it is 100% on the nose. As long as no criminal or civil charges are pressed based on the article, and he is not fired from his job, I am less concerned with that, because as thousands of women have now attested, the behavior described on this first date is not at all unusual or atypical.
A woman meets a man at a wedding or a cocktail lounge or a party,a nd they agree to go on a date the next day. A significant fraction of those dates will end in behavior very similar to what is described in this piece. This is behavior that has been tolerated for a log time, and portrayed as the cost of doing business for young women on the marriage market. It is important to re-think this, and find ways to eliminate behavior with consequences that are not legal or employment based, but still effective. On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 2:19 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> wrote: > And with this link, I'm done wasting time on this. > > > http://www.businessinsider.com/aziz-ansari-writer-email-to-hln-ashleigh-banfield-2018-1 > > The woman who wrote the story is a child. Not only is she a bad writer, > she lacks life experience. I hope as she matures and grows (and lives) that > she will go on to great things. Right now, she's just another click-bait > pretender, and I can't be bothered with her anymore. If a better > writer/journalist picks up the ball of the Ansari story, maybe I'll revisit > this, but I suspect that no better writer/journalist would touch this story > or try to ascribe it to part of the #metoo movement. I wish the woman who > dated Ansari well. I wish Ansari well. I wish Katie Way well. And I wish I > never hear anything about any of them ever again. > > > On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 7:30 AM, PGage <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I am getting a ton of feedback on this particular issue (I posted a >> longer and more nuanced take in a few other places), and it is all over the >> map; men who agree with me, women who don’t (and the opposites) - and in >> many cases agreeing and disagreeing for reasons different than the ones I >> gave. I think that means this is a liminal case, illustrating the border >> between a “bad date” and “sexual assault”. >> >> For me, this reinforces my initially tentative conclusion that we >> probably should not imprison men who behave like Ansari, or even fire them >> from their jobs. But we probably should shame them - that is hold them >> publically accountable for bad behavior. >> >> I also think that if as a culture we can get to the point where we can >> condemn with serious negative social consequences bad sexual behavior >> without having to criminalize all of it, we would have taken another step >> forward. >> >> On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 9:27 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Another woman's perspective from NY Times op-ed writer Bari Weiss >>> >>> >>> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/aziz-ansari-babe-sexual-harassment.html >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 9:12 PM, Kevin M. <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I genuinely didn't know Ashleigh Banfield was still on TV. Anyway, >>>> here's her take on Ansari's accuser. I won't claim she speaks for all >>>> women, but I do think her views fall in line with the women I've spoken >>>> about this with, and with what we have been talking about in this thread. >>>> >>>> https://www.facebook.com/AshleighBanfield/videos/10155975073519757/ >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 11:18 PM, PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Right, as I say, I don’t think we have any basis for talking about >>>>> this as a criminal act (though I am aware those who have opined so far on >>>>> this list identify as men). If I read tomorrow that Anzari has been banned >>>>> from Netflix over this I will be troubled. But that does not mean the >>>>> interaction described amounts to nothing. I am willing to take the >>>>> specfics >>>>> reported on their face, because I think they are consistent with two >>>>> different interpretations of the date - consistent with the perspective of >>>>> a man and a woman. One perspective is of a guy willing to use his position >>>>> and power to get sex from a woman without the bother of a long term >>>>> relationship, the other of a woman thinking she was exploring the >>>>> possibility of a real relationship and finding the guy was only interested >>>>> in sex. This is not news, it happens on the time. It happens enough that >>>>> it >>>>> is worth coming to some consensus on how to avoid the kind of >>>>> “misunderstanding” Ansari thinks happened here. If you want to have sex >>>>> with a woman, ask before touching her genitals. If you think you had >>>>> implicit permission to touch her genitals, and she lets you know she does >>>>> not want it, then stop. Once she lets you know she doesnt want it, the >>>>> fact >>>>> that she does not run screaming from the room, or call the police, should >>>>> not be interpreted as tacit permission to try again. >>>>> >>>>> While there may be occasional, genuine misunderstandings, it really is >>>>> not that difficult to work this out. WIthout knowing more (and it could be >>>>> better or worse than it now seems), I would say Ansari;s behavior is >>>>> somewhat less than that of a rapist, but somewhat short too of the >>>>> behavior >>>>> of a gentleman. >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 10:21 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The writer of the article, one Katie Way, has quite an assortment of >>>>>> headlines with her byline attached to them. Here are the most recent >>>>>> four: >>>>>> >>>>>> -- QUIZ: Plan your ideal 2018, and we’ll tell you what your makeup >>>>>> aesthetic is >>>>>> >>>>>> -- God, sobriety, Mario Kart: Just a list of things we’ve pretended >>>>>> to like to impress a crush >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Am I high as shit, or do these celebrities low-key look alike? >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Sorry, but Kendall Jenner can’t model for shit >>>>>> >>>>>> In the case of the article about Ansari, I am uncomfortable even >>>>>> discussing the details of what was written in the story, because the >>>>>> writer >>>>>> is not a journalist. Best case scenario, the writer took dictation or >>>>>> transcribed what the alleged victim said (and I'm not sure the best case >>>>>> scenario is what we are facing here). For "context" (those are sarcastic >>>>>> air-quotes) the writer embedded video of Aziz Ansari doing stand up and >>>>>> talk show appearances. Ansari's response didn't address any details, >>>>>> merely >>>>>> reiterated what he'd written in their texts, that he believed the sex to >>>>>> be >>>>>> consensual until he received a text wherein the woman said she was >>>>>> uncomfortable after the fact. She did not directly accuse him of sexual >>>>>> assault or abuse in those texts, and upon receiving what she texted, he >>>>>> replied apologizing for any misread signals. This one doesn't seem to me >>>>>> to >>>>>> be a career killer for Ansari. She wished him well on his movie plans and >>>>>> thanked him for the dinner. He apologized. I'm curious if there were any >>>>>> additional texts (you know... CONTEXT), but absent details -- realizing >>>>>> I'm >>>>>> a male and my opinion will be regarded as penis-based -- this appears to >>>>>> have been a date that ended badly and a guy who didn't act like a >>>>>> gentleman. You can want to slap Aziz Ansari in the face for being a >>>>>> shitty >>>>>> date, but I'm not sure what more we can take away from this one. Maybe if >>>>>> the alleged victim's story had been told by a better writer I'd feel >>>>>> differently. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 11:55 PM, Kevin M. <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> This is now trending on social media. I'm not defending Ansari; not >>>>>>> personally a fan. But I've not heard of this blog before, and the victim >>>>>>> isn't named, so -- despite the specificity of certain details -- I'm not >>>>>>> sure how much credence to give to this allegation. I know, I know, as a >>>>>>> dude I'm an asshole for even suggesting a sexual assault story might be >>>>>>> made up -- I am not saying that. I'm saying the woman isn't named and >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> blog isn't known to me, so it is difficult to simply take it at face >>>>>>> value. >>>>>>> For all I know, the blog is hugely popular in social circles I don't >>>>>>> travel >>>>>>> in, the story was written by a Pulitzer prize winner, and the anonymous >>>>>>> woman in question has a genuine story to tell and a genuine fear of >>>>>>> reprisal causing her to go unnamed. I am willing to believe the >>>>>>> anonymous >>>>>>> victim, but I have trust issues in my own personal life, let alone with >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> words of strangers. I can't see or hear the woman with my own eyes and >>>>>>> ears, and I don't know anything about the person who wrote the story. If >>>>>>> somebody can tell me something about babe.net that will assure me >>>>>>> of its credibility, please do so. Right now, I'm just shocked a story >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> an obscure blog is trending. Hawaii had a nuclear missile scare, but >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> isn't trending. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355 >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> Sent from Gmail Mobile >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Kevin M. (RPCV) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
