The examples aren’t equivalent because there is no history of blacks oppressing whites in America, so acts of overt racism committed by whites against blacks don’t hold the same meaning (or threat of violence) if they’re committed by blacks against whites. And the examples of black comedians using whiteface either ironically or just as makeup for a role they’re playing that requires them to be Caucasian for the bit to work isn’t equivalent to white actors who don blackface for the explicit purpose of demeaning blacks.
No one took John Griffin to task when he donned blackface to experience life as a black man in the South in the early 60s, chronicled in the book and movie “Black Like Me.” He didn’t do it to demean blacks, but rather to help them by opening a window on their experience that whites couldn’t otherwise experience. His blackface was in no way equivalent to vaudeville performers like Amos & Andy. It’s not the act of changing the color of your skin that’s offensive; it’s the context of when and why you’re doing it that determines whether it is. Doug Fields Tampa, FL From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Timko Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2018 8:15 PM To: TV or Not TV <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [TV orNotTV] Megyn Kelly steps in it again But lighting a cross on the lawn of a white family is still pretty bad, even if it doesn't carry the weight of lighting the cross on the lawn of a black family. The Ku Klux Klan tried to scared migrant coal miners in western Pennsylvania in the period immediately after World War I. They burned a cross in my father's town.. He and his older brother, who were maybe not teens yet, took a pickle barrel ring and mounted it on a pole, doused it with gas and lit it on the hillside. The community braced as they thought the Slavs were fighting back. On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 5:03 PM PGage <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: It’s not that it is not quantitatively equivalent. It is not qualitatively equivalent. The two have nothing substantive in common. Lighting a bag of dog poop on a white neighbors porch on Halloween might be obnoxious, even potentially dangerous, vandalism. It does not deserve to be even mentioned in the same paragraph as lighting a cross on the lawn of a black neighbor. On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 4:25 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Does it have to be equivalent to be offensive? On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 1:06 PM PGage <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Not really - except that anyone who thinks this is in any way close to equivalent to blackface has zero understanding of blackface. On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 11:59 AM Steve Timko <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Any thoughts on Dave Chapelle in white face? LINK<https://youtu.be/ZX5MHNvjw7o> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:09 AM PGage <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: As I wrote, some things are a matter of opinion. I think the term “politically correct” is imprecise and loaded and unhelpful, but people do vary in their sensitivity to offense, and some are so sensitive they cause a burden for others. This is not that. Blackface is objectively racist. The racism is not imputed by the observer, it does not depend on the act of perception. Al Jolson singing Mammy is a racist image. People do not impute offense to it; it is, in itself, offensive. Now context and relationship can make offensive acts tools of resistance, or excusable ignorance. But nothing changes the inherent racism. If a really old German said something like: “Boy it’s hard to keep up with what is and is not OK. When I was a kid back in the early 1930s we used Swastikas to decorate kid’s birthday parties, and now it is politicallly incorrect to just fly a Swastika flag in your front yard” everyone would, appropriately, call bullshit on that. What Kelly said is exactly like that. I am sure lots of people remember when they could dress in blackface without condemnation, or use the word nigger in polite conversation. The appropriate observation about that is not “gee, people have become so sensitive these days” but more like “gee, I guess we were really fucking racist in those days.” On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:21 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I'm not sure when you mean "honestly say it was not racist." In my case, we did a school play when I was in fourth or fifth grade, maybe third (I was in the east wing of the school at the time) and it included a survey of entertainment. There was the obligatory reference to Al Jolson so they put a kid in black face and had him sing a few Al Jolson lines. To be honest,. I'm not sure we understood that we were caricaturing black people. My town had one black couple. The woman worked in the post office and part time in the high school library in a near by town. When I got to high school I actually had a black classmate. I won't speak for either of them but I never saw overtly racial remarks towards them., I'm sure they were made. But everyone was pretty mellow. On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:00 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I grew up around racists... no black face... not ever. I’ve stated over on my own social media that, growing up in my neighborhood in Pomona, one could not be racist and have friends. My group of friends never thought much about it. When our respective moms told us to “go outside and play,” we played with whichever kids were in the street. My oldest brother was the only white guy on his high school football team. It wasn’t weird to us; it was normal and no big deal. Nobody I knew would have worn black face either as a gag or to be offensive. When I went to high school in Corona, I attached myself to the group of kids who hung around what was called the “scholar bench,” and they were even more diverse (I brought down the grade curve significantly, yet they remain my closest friends to this day). Again, black face would not have been contemplated. College up in the state of Washington, most of the campus was white. That’s how much of Western Washington was at the time. But even surrounded my mostly white folks, no black face. I wrote this not as some sort of humblegrag; my story is not unique. If you are any age and remember with any degree of nostalgia the racist behavior of the people you knew when you were younger, you need help. Racism certainly existed all around me growing up, but the bigots were not overt about it. If anything, racists kept it to themselves. On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:36 PM PGage <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: If you are under 60 and at anytime in your life you can honestly say that it was not racist for white people to put on blackface when you were growing up, we know only one things for sure; you grew up around racists. Lots of things about race are complex and subject to POV. This is not one of those things. Of course, lots of people grew up around racists, so... On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 3:45 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I'm a decade older than Megyn Kelly. When I was a kid, black face was still okay, although that was a reflection of a being in a rural mining town. I called Brazil nuts nigger toes until I got into college. Of course I learned to be more culturally sensitive. That seems to be where Kelly is lacking. I wonder if this will show up as an SNL skit? On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 2:30 PM Chris Neuman <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Patton Oswalt tweeted that same sentiment: https://twitter.com/pattonoswalt/status/1054759947114672129 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 1:50 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: How old is Kelly that, as a kid, black face was an acceptable form of dress-up? I’m in my mid 40s... I’m almost certain Kelly is younger than I am, and at no point in my life was black face ever acceptable. On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:33 AM Tom Wolper <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:04 AM Steve Timko <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: NBC lets her have it. Other networks ignore it. https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/media/megyn-kelly-blackface-al-roker/index.html As I get more of my news through Twitter I am following more journalists of color and feminist journalists in order to get different points of view than my own reacting to events. The African-American journalists I follow and the people they retweet all say that Megyn Kelly has a long history of racist remarks at Fox News and NBC knew what they were getting when they hired her. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Kevin M. (RPCV) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. 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