And you question why UV can't support the DW? Why not ask the alternate question
of why the SQL Server can't handle the backend?
No one is saying UV is a truly 'enterprise' class DB. It's not marketed as such. It's
an extremely efficient, low-cost, high-performance, zero administration DB primarily
geared at being the backend (as you have now) for application usage. It's primarily used
as an embedded database shipped as part of a solution package. It is seldom sold as a
stand-alone DB.
Building actual "applications" that directly go at your Oracle/DB2's of the world is
a pain in the arse. Administering said DBs is also a high-cost, complex, cumbersome
task as well.
Highlighting that the couple of UV people on your staff not knowing XML is somehow
a weakness in the product is ludicrous. My wife is an Oracle expert/DBA/etc... she
can barely spell XML. Does this imply Oracle's XML support sucks? Of course not.
Again, you pick on UV, claiming you have to use DataStage to pull data out of UV
into SQL Server.
Why then:
a) Doesn't SQL Server sufficiently handle your back-end?
b) Can't SQL Server directly access the data?
c) Is DataStage, the tool being used to do this (and handles Web Services, XML,
XPath, XSLT, etc...), built on top of UniVerse?
Finally, don't fall into the mistake that performing well would mean you would be
in the top 3.
Why? Simple... marketing wins over technology almost all the time. Informix was
a great example. They had a wonderfully performant VLDB technology. They
did very well in OLTP benchmarks. Yet, they weren't a top 3 DB (being #4/#5,
depending on the timeframe).
The U2 products are great products. They are not 'cutting edge', but they are not
way behind either. Their target market is very different from the "BigThree", and
many would argue they are much better at the job they are intended for than the
Big Three. They are NOT better at all things. But, for low-cost, low-maintenance
embedded data base support with high-performance, high-user concurrency support,
it's hard to beat it.
Dave
At 11:27 AM 3/29/2004 -0500, you wrote:
We have UV doing everything on the BackEnd, we also have MSSQL Server to Support Data Warehousing... Why 2 Databases Systems? Cause UV Cant support Data Warehousing? Doesn't this eventually introduce Disparate Systems?
> U2, for example, has support for Java connectivity, XML, and I believe > they either have or are working on Web Services support
Its funny you say the above, UV/PICK Guys in our Team didn't even understand the basics of XML.. leave alone XPath, XQuery etc. These Technologies are NATIVELY Supported in ORACLE/DB2 Etc.
e.g. We pull XML Reports from our Vendors Real Time. I have to parse through the XML and give UV/PICK Guys a FLAT TEXT File... cause either UV Cannot handle the storage and Retrival of XML Data Using XPath/XQuery Techniques.
Yes, we use DataStage to pull data out of UV Into MSSQL SERVER... For what? Why cant UV handle of the DB Job?
As for Performance...UV Does NOT Perform Well in a OLTP Environment, SIMPLE: IF UV did Perform Well...Today's Fortune 500 would depend on UV and UV/PICK would have been in the TOP 3 OF DataBases.
Joe Eugene
> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of David T. Meeks > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:37 AM > To: U2 Users Discussion List > Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing > > While one could make the argument that Pick has not embraced emerging > technologies as rapidly as the 'Big Three', it HAS done so. > > U2, for example, has support for Java connectivity, XML, and I believe > they > either have or are working on Web Services support (I know, for example, > that > the DSEngine in DataStage has support for Web Services). > > One could argue the need or purpose of supporting certain technologies, > and > the level of support currently within the products, but to say that there > is > "little/no" support is a bit uninformed. > > The U2 products ARE supported in certain "Integration" software. I > wouldn't > typically consider SAP/PeopleSoft "integration" software. They are > Enterprise > Software Suites, but not geared particularly at 'integration'. > > However, given that SAP and PeopleSoft OEM the DataStage product sets > for both of their "integration" products (SAP's BW, PeopleSoft's EPM, > JDEdwards stuff as well), and given DataStage works very well with both U2 > products, this point is actually wrong. People who have SAP or PeopleSoft > solutions CAN, very easily, integrate their U2 data to/from those > environments. > > As to 'efficiency', one can measure that in a variety of different > dimensions. > From a memory/disk space/footprint/administrative overhead dimensions, > the > U2 database products are VERY efficient. > > Finally, as to being "slow", again this depends on the measurement > criteria > being used. From the perspective of concurrent user access and the > performance > of application style DB usage (largely input/output, multiple concurrent > users, etc..), > the U2 products stand up very well to the mainstream guys. For support of > VLDB, > highly transactional query-based usage models, and the like, it does not. > > Trying to make the U2 products into what they are not is wrong. They are > not the > panacea for every database requirement. However, for certain problems, > especially > those for which it was designed (embedded database for application > development), > it is very efficient. > > Dave > > At 10:24 PM 3/28/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >PICK is LEGACY Technology and does NOT Support alot of advanced > >level computing we have today. I belive PICK is Similiar to Legacy DB2 > >that used ISAM type of DataBases Access. Even IBM has moved DB2 (Now UDB) > >to a completly relational architecture. > > > >I belive some of the below are good reasons to Migrate to > >MainStream (Top 3 - DB2/Oracle/MSSQL etc) Databases. > > > >1. UV has Little/NO support for Emerging Technologies(XML/XQuery/XSLT/WML > etc) > >2. UV is Not supported in Most Integration Enterprise Software > >(SAP/PeopleSoft) > >3. UV is Not efficient compared to highly evolved databases(DB2/Oracle) > >4. UV Folks seem to use PICK, which is Not Compatible with many of > > of the Current Advanced Technologies and Techniques. > >5. UV is very SLOW, TOO Procedural and Not the right tool for > > an OLTP Environment. > > > >It would be nice if IBM provided a Package to convert all UV Stuff to > >IBM DB2 and perhaps provide some kinda code converter to convert > >all pick stuff to DB2 Stored Procs or Java Native Compiled Procedures. > >I belive this would be ideal and would help corportations intergrate > >systems easily. > > > >Joe Eugene > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Phil Walker > >Sent: Sun 3/28/2004 7:59 PM > >To: U2 Users Discussion List > >Subject: RE: The lists are closing > > > > > > > >David, > > > >As the list is closing this is probably not off topic - so I will > comment. > > > >I believe PICK has been around since the mid to late 1960's, whereas > Oracle > >and the SQL relation model has been around only since the mid to late > 1970's > >early 1980's if you are talking about Oracle etc. > > > >I may be wrong. > > > >Phil Walker > >+64 21 336294 > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >infocusp limited > >\\ PO Box 77032, Auckland New Zealand \ www.infocusp.co.nz > >DISCLAIMER: This electronic message together with any attachments is > >confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, do not copy, > disclose > >or use the contents in any way. Please also advise us by return e-mail > that > >you have received the message and then please destroy. infocusp limited > is > >not responsible for any changes made to this message and / or any > >attachments after sending by infocusp limited. We use virus scanning > >software but exclude all liability for viruses or anything similar in > this > >email or any attachment > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Behalf Of Logan, David (SST - Adelaide) > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:36 PM > >To: U2 Users Discussion List > >Subject: RE: The lists are closing > > > >Best of luck Jeff, however I will point out the obvious, what is your > >definition of modern? I would have thought the good old "relational > >databases" have been around since before pick anyway? 8-) > > > >Regards > > > >David Logan > >Database Administrator > >HP Managed Services > >139 Frome Street, > >Adelaide 5000 > >Australia > > > >+61 8 8408 4273 > >+61 417 268 665 > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >On Behalf Of Jeff Ritchie > >Sent: Monday, 29 March 2004 8:03 AM > >To: U2 Users Discussion List > >Subject: RE: The lists are closing > > > > > >Thanks for the memories Cliff :) > > > >Sorry to hear the lists are closing, but what the heck time and tide, > >work committments etc. > > > >As some one who is shortly to be ex mv, and moving into the more modern > >technologies l will decline the offer to join, but wish the site all the > >best. > > > >Cheers, > >Jeff > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Moderator [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Saturday, 27 March 2004 7:14 PM > >To: U2 Users Discussion List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: The lists are closing > > > > > >Dear Friends: > > > >After 10+ years of either hosting or supporting the info-prime, > >info-unidata, info-vmark, info-informix, and u2-users etc lists, I have > >decided to shut down the list server. > > > >u2-users and u2-community will cease to exist as of 1 April 2004. IBM is > > > >officially supporting the efforts of the new U2UG.org group. (Yes. I am > >a member of the establishing Board of that group. So this is not a > >"coup" or Sour Grapes!) If you check out the forums that have been set > >up, I think you will will see that they cover everything anyone has > >asked for over the years in this group. > > > >I *really* want to encourage ALL of you to come over the the > >www.u2ug.org site and support this effort. This is *exactly* what many > >of you on this list have wanted over the years. If Not Now, When? > > > >Almost ten years on my Watch. How many years before that on Mike > >O'Rear's Watch? In the Net World, this has been a Hell of a good run. (I > > > >just couldn't resist tripping the Net Nanny filters one last time <very > >evil grin>) > > > >I'll see all of you on the other media, ok? > > > >-- > > > >Regards, > > > >Clif > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >W. Clifton Oliver, CCP > >CLIFTON OLIVER & ASSOCIATES > >Tel: +1 619 460 5678 Web: www.oliver.com > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > >-- > >u2-users mailing list > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > >-- > >u2-users mailing list > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > >-- > >u2-users mailing list > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > > > >-- > >u2-users mailing list > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > > > > > >-- > >u2-users mailing list > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > ======================================================================== > David T. Meeks || "All my life I'm taken by surprise > Architect, Technology Office || I'm someone's waste of time > Ascential Software || Now I walk a balanced line > [EMAIL PROTECTED] || and step into tomorrow" - IQ > ======================================================================== > -- > u2-users mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
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======================================================================== David T. Meeks || "All my life I'm taken by surprise Architect, Technology Office || I'm someone's waste of time Ascential Software || Now I walk a balanced line [EMAIL PROTECTED] || and step into tomorrow" - IQ ======================================================================== -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
