Hello, I don't know anything about IOS 8. But, I have to say, restarting voice over, it'll eventually ware out the home button. Fortunately, I don't have a phone yet, but I will, eventually, and these things are not putting me off, but I agree, people need to be aware of it.
----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Date: Friday, October 23, 2015 1:37 pm Subject: Re: A Quick Word On Beta Testing > > > I can assure you, I'm not missing the point. The fact that Apple has a > lot of products is irrelevant. Apple is also the wealthiest company in > the world, due to the fact that they have a lot of successful products. > I'm not going to cut them any slack because they have a lot of products > since they also have a lot of resources. If they have too many products, > and they can't maintain a certain level of quality across those products > then they need to make some changes in priorities and business > decisions. Note, I'm not saying Apple has a quality issue or that they > don't care about accessibility. I'm just saying that the argument that > they have a lot of products is bogus. > > I can't help it if you think the issues I've reported are trivial, but > they certainly are not to me. Having to hard reset my phone every time I > get a call when my headset is attached certainly impacts my ability to > use my iPhone the way I've been using it for years. I can also tell you > that I process a lot fewer emails now that I have to recycle VoiceOver > every time I reply to an email message. I use an iPhone for both my > personal use and for my job, and these bugs are definitely impacting my > ability to be productive at work. > > I'm sorry the fact that I'm a lot less reluctant to recommend an iPhone > to a blind user, at least not without telling them the bugs I'm running > into on IOS 9 bothers you, but I'd hate to have a blind person get an > iPhone and then run into the problems I'm seeing. If they don't use the > phone the way I do, or they don't see these bugs themselves, then that's > great, but at least they'll be making an informed decision. My real > point in saying that though, was that people's impression of IOS 8 > versus IOS 9 has a lot to do with how they use their phone. I was not an > IOS 8 basher, but I'm definitely running into a lot more issue that > impact me and how I use my phone on IOS 9 then I did on IOS 8. For me, > the quality of IOS 9 has definitely deteriorated, so it isn't true for > everyone that IOS 8 was this unmitigated disaster and IOS 9 has solved > all of those issues. > > On 10/23/2015 06:48 AM, Daniel Miller wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I think everyone's missing the point here. Apple's accessibility team is > > not just focusing on VoiceOver, they're focusing on an entire set of > > features, covering different disabilities. Furthermore, they've now got 4 > > operating systems to focus on, rather than 2. > > None of the bugs mentioned in this thread absolutely prevent anyone from > > using iOS, so let Apple fix them when they get to them on what is probably > > a gigantic list of things to fix, and not just for VoiceOver users. > > Saying you can't recommend the iPhone any more because of a few minor > > annoyances seems a bit far fetched in my opinion. > > > >> On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:37 AM, Rajmund <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Hello, > >> Yes, there are some worrying bugs, let's be fair. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> > >> To: [email protected] > >> Date: Friday, October 23, 2015 12:30 pm > >> Subject: Re: A Quick Word On Beta Testing > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> For me, I didn't find any bugs in IOS 8 I couldn't live with. I never > >>> regretted upgrading to IOS 8. IOS 9 is a different story. I lose > >>> VoiceOver when I answer a call with my headset on, and VoiceOver freezes > >>> when I reply to an email message. I'm still getting by with the work > >>> arounds I've uncovered so far, but I'm much less satisfied with IOS 9 > >>> than I was with IOS 8, and I can't recommend the iPhone anymore to > >>> another blind person, at least not without letting them know about these > >>> issues. > >>> > >>> On 10/22/2015 12:43 PM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > >>>> Hi, > >>>> I guess you just said what i was trying to say earlier on only mor well > >>>> spokenly than me. > >>>> Thanks for that. > >>>> /Krister > >>>> > >>>>> 22 okt. 2015 kl. 18:59 skrev Wayne Merritt <[email protected]>: > >>>>> > >>>>> Everyone, > >>>>> Think for a moment how many bugs and issues there were in iOS 8.X last > >>>>> year. A number of them were directly related to VoiceOver and a number > >>>>> were in the mainstream. Apple got so much ill will from everyone > >>>>> across the board for putting out things that didn't work. Now, with > >>>>> iOS 9, I haven't seen nearly as much outcry among the masses for the > >>>>> buggy and half-baked job Apple did with iOS. There are things that are > >>>>> bugs for some and not for others, but now that the focus issues have > >>>>> been fixed, I haven't seen any other bugs that I can't live with. > >>>>> Okay, so the phone does not automatically announce the time when I > >>>>> press the home or power button; I can still touch the part of the > >>>>> screen that has the time and check it that way. Or, here's a thought, > >>>>> look at another clock or watch if I really want to know what time it > >>>>> is. And, for those thinking that Apple has sooo many bugs and no one > >>>>> else does, widen your scope and look at Windows, JAWS, any screen > >>>>> reader or assistive software, or any other widely used mainstream > >>>>> software. All major releases has bugs to some degree. If we waited for > >>>>> the software companies to fix the bugs before they released the > >>>>> software, we would be waiting forever for that next big thing. > >>>>> > >>>>> Wayne > >>>>> > >>>>> On 10/22/15, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> Of course you should report bugs. They won't be addressed if Apple > >>>>>> doesn't know about them. They may still not be addressed, but that will > >>>>>> be a conscious decision made by Apple and their developers. Your target > >>>>>> isn't other users but the Apple developers. If you weren't going to do > >>>>>> something because of a negative reaction by a minority of members on > >>>>>> this list or in any community then you'd never do anything. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> You may be able to shrug off bugs when you upgrade, but that doesn't > >>>>>> mean everyone can. I did that with IOS up through 8.4, but with IOS 9, > >>>>>> answering phone calls with a headset on and responding to emails is so > >>>>>> bad it makes the phone virtually unusable for two tasks I've come to > >>>>>> depend on my iPhone for. IMHO, there's too much judgment on this list > >>>>>> about the impacts certain bugs have on different users. We all don't > >>>>>> use > >>>>>> our phones the same way, so we shouldn't pass judgment on another user > >>>>>> because they're more impacted by a bug than we are. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I don't get the reference to Windows. Apple still has a long ways to go > >>>>>> before it gets as much criticism as Microsoft and Freedom Scientific > >>>>>> has > >>>>>> gotten from their blind users. Furthermore, I don't see the fan boyism > >>>>>> for Microsoft that I see for Apple in the blindness community. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 10/22/2015 03:09 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > >>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>> Very well said Mark, but what i ask myself is does it matter what we > >>>>>>> as > >>>>>>> beta testers might say? For every release there has been and probably > >>>>>>> will > >>>>>>> be a tsunami of negativity and complaining and even if what has been > >>>>>>> complained about would be fixed to perfection they complain about the > >>>>>>> fixes. Either it's too bloody late or there's too little or too much > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>> everything. I'm the type of guy who upgrades every app and every Os > >>>>>>> to see > >>>>>>> what features are there and if there are bugs, well shrug, nobody's > >>>>>>> perfect. As i said before i think it's strange that Apple gets so many > >>>>>>> complaints about things that aren't even their fault like apps that > >>>>>>> are > >>>>>>> not upgraded and so don't work or such. In my time on Windows there > >>>>>>> wasn't > >>>>>>> anything like this complaining. Nobody ever said that "freedom > >>>>>>> scientific > >>>>>>> or GW Micro or Dolphin has abandoned us and don't give a fig about > >>>>>>> us". So > >>>>>>> are there bugs? Of course there probably are, no big chunk of code is > >>>>>>> ever > >>>>>>> bug free. Should we report them? > >>>>>> Yes politely and with enough info to make the folks aware of the > >>>>>> problem > >>>>>> but i wonder if that's the case when i hear the tone here and on other > >>>>>> forums where blind folks and Apple are the common denominator. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> /Krister > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 22 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev M. Taylor <[email protected]>: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello Everyone, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I just want to let those of you, who are not beta testers, know, is > >>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>> with any company, be it Apple, Microsoft, Sony, etc, reporting a > >>>>>>>> problem, > >>>>>>>> regardless of how important it may appear to be to the tester, is not > >>>>>>>> always > >>>>>>>> addressed immediately or, in some cases, ever. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> It has been my experience that the larger an organization becomes, > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> less > >>>>>>>> responsive, in terms of addressing non-mission critical problems, it > >>>>>>>> may > >>>>>>>> appear to be to external testers. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> All we, as beta testers can do, is to make the organization aware of > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> problems and hope that it will manage to address said problems in a > >>>>>>>> future > >>>>>>>> release. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> In my opinion, beta testing is a somewhat thankless job because, when > >>>>>>>> bugs > >>>>>>>> get squashed, no one pays attention to them or cares how or why they > >>>>>>>> were > >>>>>>>> resolved and when bugs remain, people think that the testers are not > >>>>>>>> testing > >>>>>>>> well enough. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> To me, beta testing, not just for Apple but for any company is my > >>>>>>>> way of > >>>>>>>> showing appreciation for those things in life which I may now take > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> granted; things like clean drinking water, electricity, personal > >>>>>>>> liberties, > >>>>>>>> talking ATM machines, audio-described movies, screen readers, > >>>>>>>> refreshable > >>>>>>>> Braille displays, smart phones, hearing aids, medicine, etc. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Beta testing is also my way of showing my respect for those blind and > >>>>>>>> low-vision pioneers who came before me and it is a means by which I > >>>>>>>> may, > >>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>> some small part, leave a legacy to those who will follow. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> So, when a product is released with a number of bugs, please try to > >>>>>>>> keep > >>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>> mind that were it not for beta testers, that number would most > >>>>>>>> likely be > >>>>>>>> much higher. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Most Sincerely, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Mark > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the VIPhone > >>>>>>>> list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this > >>>>>>>> list, or > >>>>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > >>>>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > >>>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at > >>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. > >>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>>>>> Groups > >>>>>>>> "VIPhone" group. > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >>>>>>>> send an > >>>>>>>> email to [email protected]. > >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Christopher (CJ) > >>>>>> chaltain at Gmail > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the VIPhone > >>>>>> list. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, > >>>>>> or if > >>>>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > >>>>>> owners or > >>>>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at > >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. > >>>>>> --- > >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>>> Groups > >>>>>> "VIPhone" group. > >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>>>>> an > >>>>>> email to [email protected]. > >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Follow me on Twitter at: > >>>>> www.twitter.com/wcmerritt > >>>>> My website: > >>>>> www.wayneism.com > >>>>> My book list: > >>>>> www.wayneism.com/books.php > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the VIPhone > >>>>> list. > >>>>> > >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, > >>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact > >>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list > >>>>> itself. > >>>>> > >>>>> Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> > >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at > >>>>> http://www.mail-archive..com/[email protected]/. > >>>>> --- > >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. > >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>>>> an email to [email protected]. > >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Christopher (CJ) > >>> chaltain at Gmail > >>> > >>> -- > >>> The following information is important for all members of the VIPhone > >>> list. > >>> > >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > >>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > >>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >>> > >>> Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> The archives for this list can be searched at > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. > >>> --- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >>> "VIPhone" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >>> email to [email protected]. > >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >> > >> Sent from a Braille Sense > >> > >> -- > >> The following information is important for all members of the VIPhone list. > >> > >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >> > >> Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > >> [email protected] > >> > >> The archives for this list can be searched at > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. > >> --- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "VIPhone" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >> email to [email protected]. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the VIPhone list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > [email protected] > > The archives for this list can be searched at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. Sent from a Braille Sense -- The following information is important for all members of the VIPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
