hi.
very well said.
there are people in this group who needed to hear your words.
what it can be good for them, it may not be for others.
and for me it is not.
Apple has to take more responsibility for the blind community in this world.
some people think that what Apple does for us, it's a favor.
we do not need favors, but rights.
and we must fight for our rights.
and this is not just for Apple, but for all companies that do not
respect us as they should
we always do our part in cooperation in solving the problems, but the
apple never treat us with the same rights that deals with sighted people.
apple has the ability to solve the problems of the sighted, why it
also does not solve the problems of the blind with the same capacity?
blind are those who do not want to see ...
and I'm blind, but I want to see!
and always want the best for me!
and if I am an apple user,
I'm also a client.
and if I am a client, I have to be treated with respect.
and respect for me, is to have equal rights.
thank you for your words.
cheers.
Às 13:37 de 23/10/2015, Christopher Chaltain escreveu:
I can assure you, I'm not missing the point. The fact that Apple has a
lot of products is irrelevant. Apple is also the wealthiest company in
the world, due to the fact that they have a lot of successful
products. I'm not going to cut them any slack because they have a lot
of products since they also have a lot of resources. If they have too
many products, and they can't maintain a certain level of quality
across those products then they need to make some changes in
priorities and business decisions. Note, I'm not saying Apple has a
quality issue or that they don't care about accessibility. I'm just
saying that the argument that they have a lot of products is bogus.
I can't help it if you think the issues I've reported are trivial, but
they certainly are not to me. Having to hard reset my phone every time
I get a call when my headset is attached certainly impacts my ability
to use my iPhone the way I've been using it for years. I can also tell
you that I process a lot fewer emails now that I have to recycle
VoiceOver every time I reply to an email message. I use an iPhone for
both my personal use and for my job, and these bugs are definitely
impacting my ability to be productive at work.
I'm sorry the fact that I'm a lot less reluctant to recommend an
iPhone to a blind user, at least not without telling them the bugs I'm
running into on IOS 9 bothers you, but I'd hate to have a blind person
get an iPhone and then run into the problems I'm seeing. If they don't
use the phone the way I do, or they don't see these bugs themselves,
then that's great, but at least they'll be making an informed
decision. My real point in saying that though, was that people's
impression of IOS 8 versus IOS 9 has a lot to do with how they use
their phone. I was not an IOS 8 basher, but I'm definitely running
into a lot more issue that impact me and how I use my phone on IOS 9
then I did on IOS 8. For me, the quality of IOS 9 has definitely
deteriorated, so it isn't true for everyone that IOS 8 was this
unmitigated disaster and IOS 9 has solved all of those issues.
On 10/23/2015 06:48 AM, Daniel Miller wrote:
Hi,
I think everyone’s missing the point here. Apple’s accessibility team
is not just focusing on VoiceOver, they’re focusing on an entire set
of features, covering different disabilities. Furthermore, they’ve
now got 4 operating systems to focus on, rather than 2.
None of the bugs mentioned in this thread absolutely prevent anyone
from using iOS, so let Apple fix them when they get to them on what
is probably a gigantic list of things to fix, and not just for
VoiceOver users.
Saying you can’t recommend the iPhone any more because of a few minor
annoyances seems a bit far fetched in my opinion.
On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:37 AM, Rajmund <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello,
Yes, there are some worrying bugs, let's be fair.
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Date: Friday, October 23, 2015 12:30 pm
Subject: Re: A Quick Word On Beta Testing
For me, I didn't find any bugs in IOS 8 I couldn't live with. I never
regretted upgrading to IOS 8. IOS 9 is a different story. I lose
VoiceOver when I answer a call with my headset on, and VoiceOver
freezes
when I reply to an email message. I'm still getting by with the work
arounds I've uncovered so far, but I'm much less satisfied with IOS 9
than I was with IOS 8, and I can't recommend the iPhone anymore to
another blind person, at least not without letting them know about
these
issues.
On 10/22/2015 12:43 PM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
Hi,
I guess you just said what i was trying to say earlier on only mor
well spokenly than me.
Thanks for that.
/Krister
22 okt. 2015 kl. 18:59 skrev Wayne Merritt <[email protected]>:
Everyone,
Think for a moment how many bugs and issues there were in iOS 8.X
last
year. A number of them were directly related to VoiceOver and a
number
were in the mainstream. Apple got so much ill will from everyone
across the board for putting out things that didn't work. Now, with
iOS 9, I haven't seen nearly as much outcry among the masses for the
buggy and half-baked job Apple did with iOS. There are things
that are
bugs for some and not for others, but now that the focus issues have
been fixed, I haven't seen any other bugs that I can't live with.
Okay, so the phone does not automatically announce the time when I
press the home or power button; I can still touch the part of the
screen that has the time and check it that way. Or, here's a
thought,
look at another clock or watch if I really want to know what time it
is. And, for those thinking that Apple has sooo many bugs and no one
else does, widen your scope and look at Windows, JAWS, any screen
reader or assistive software, or any other widely used mainstream
software. All major releases has bugs to some degree. If we
waited for
the software companies to fix the bugs before they released the
software, we would be waiting forever for that next big thing.
Wayne
On 10/22/15, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> wrote:
Of course you should report bugs. They won't be addressed if Apple
doesn't know about them. They may still not be addressed, but
that will
be a conscious decision made by Apple and their developers. Your
target
isn't other users but the Apple developers. If you weren't going
to do
something because of a negative reaction by a minority of
members on
this list or in any community then you'd never do anything.
You may be able to shrug off bugs when you upgrade, but that
doesn't
mean everyone can. I did that with IOS up through 8.4, but with
IOS 9,
answering phone calls with a headset on and responding to emails
is so
bad it makes the phone virtually unusable for two tasks I've
come to
depend on my iPhone for. IMHO, there's too much judgment on this
list
about the impacts certain bugs have on different users. We all
don't use
our phones the same way, so we shouldn't pass judgment on
another user
because they're more impacted by a bug than we are.
I don't get the reference to Windows. Apple still has a long
ways to go
before it gets as much criticism as Microsoft and Freedom
Scientific has
gotten from their blind users. Furthermore, I don't see the fan
boyism
for Microsoft that I see for Apple in the blindness community.
On 10/22/2015 03:09 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
Hi,
Very well said Mark, but what i ask myself is does it matter
what we as
beta testers might say? For every release there has been and
probably will
be a tsunami of negativity and complaining and even if what has
been
complained about would be fixed to perfection they complain
about the
fixes. Either it's too bloody late or there's too little or too
much of
everything. I'm the type of guy who upgrades every app and
every Os to see
what features are there and if there are bugs, well shrug,
nobody's
perfect. As i said before i think it's strange that Apple gets
so many
complaints about things that aren't even their fault like apps
that are
not upgraded and so don't work or such. In my time on Windows
there wasn't
anything like this complaining. Nobody ever said that "freedom
scientific
or GW Micro or Dolphin has abandoned us and don't give a fig
about us". So
are there bugs? Of course there probably are, no big chunk of
code is ever
bug free. Should we report them?
Yes politely and with enough info to make the folks aware of the
problem
but i wonder if that's the case when i hear the tone here and on
other
forums where blind folks and Apple are the common denominator.
/Krister
22 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev M. Taylor <[email protected]>:
Hello Everyone,
I just want to let those of you, who are not beta testers,
know, is that
with any company, be it Apple, Microsoft, Sony, etc, reporting a
problem,
regardless of how important it may appear to be to the tester,
is not
always
addressed immediately or, in some cases, ever.
It has been my experience that the larger an organization
becomes, the
less
responsive, in terms of addressing non-mission critical
problems, it may
appear to be to external testers.
All we, as beta testers can do, is to make the organization
aware of the
problems and hope that it will manage to address said problems
in a
future
release.
In my opinion, beta testing is a somewhat thankless job
because, when
bugs
get squashed, no one pays attention to them or cares how or
why they
were
resolved and when bugs remain, people think that the testers
are not
testing
well enough.
To me, beta testing, not just for Apple but for any company is
my way of
showing appreciation for those things in life which I may now
take for
granted; things like clean drinking water, electricity, personal
liberties,
talking ATM machines, audio-described movies, screen readers,
refreshable
Braille displays, smart phones, hearing aids, medicine, etc.
Beta testing is also my way of showing my respect for those
blind and
low-vision pioneers who came before me and it is a means by
which I may,
in
some small part, leave a legacy to those who will follow.
So, when a product is released with a number of bugs, please
try to keep
in
mind that were it not for beta testers, that number would most
likely be
much higher.
Most Sincerely,
Mark
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