Well, I have an iPhone 11, and I can use face ID just fine. That doesn't mean I 
prefer it over touch ID. Just because I prefer touch ID over face ID doesn't 
mean I struggle with change or don't think I can use an iPhone! I totally get 
why others may prefer face ID. Sometimes preferring one feature over another is 
just that, a simple preference based on how one uses the phone. Just because 
someone uses a phone differently from someone else or prefers one feature over 
another doesn't mean they're wrong or resistant to change or anything like 
that! I know I'm overstating things and putting words in people's mouth, but 
I'm just trying to make a simple point.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ)
Chaltain at Outlook

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Les 
Kriegler
Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 2:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: This is why you should wait for the iPhone 14

Well, I have been using Face ID for close to a year. I can state one fat 
categorically. Touch ID worked essentially 100% of the time for me. Face ID 
does not. It works the majority of the time, but certainly not always. Wow I 
can live with Face ID, I do hope that Apple comes out with a touch ID option. 
Even if it’s not an actual button, I would still like to see them implement 
that. If they don’t, I can live with it, however.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2021, at 3:34 PM, Johna Gravitt <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Just so I'm clear, I'm by no means saying that just because I miss 
> the home button doesn't mean I couldn't operate a phone without one, I just 
> like it, that's all.  I have not used a phone with face ID yet, as I have the 
> latest SE Version that I upgraded to from my 8.  With that being said, I do 
> like the touch ID and was just posing the question if face ID is harder to 
> use for a person who's blind.  I ask because the nature of my eye conditions 
> makes my eyes move on their own and I was wondering if that'd cause a problem 
> with facial recognition.
> I would however miss not being able to just touch my phone to unlock it and 
> always having to pick it up and put it in front of my face to unlock it.
> Johna
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of 
> Alex Stone
> Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 2:33 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: This is why you should wait for the iPhone 14
> 
> Sieghart, I completely agree. How some blind i or Vi people act as though the 
> lack of a home makes the entire device completely inaccessible.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 4 Oct 2021, at 19:28, Sieghard Weitzel <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> I think almost all visually impaired users find the lack of a home button 
>> to be not a big deal once you get used to the swipe up from the bottom. For 
>> me it's at a point where I always try to swipe up on the iPad we have at my 
>> store before I remember "Oh, this has a home button". I mean what does the 
>> home button really do? Just 2 things, you press it once to get out of an app 
>> and go to the home screen and second you press it twice to bring up the app 
>> switcher. The triple press to start or stop Voiceover is already taken care 
>> of by triple pressing the side button.
>> As for the single and double press, instead of putting your finger on the 
>> home button and pressing it you put your finger on the bottom of the screen 
>> where you would put it anyways if you had a home button and you do a bit of 
>> a swipe up or a bit more of a swipe up if you want to bring up the app 
>> switcher. I honestly find it easier and when it come sto Touch Id, well, 
>> Face Id works actually better for me because I can use it when I wear gloves 
>> or when my fingers are messed up from woodworking. Yes, I know only a very 
>> small percentage of blind people use a table saw and other power tools, but 
>> I know a lot of sighted people who are in the same boat, they do a lot of 
>> manual work and Touch Id doesn't work for them 9 out of 10 times like for my 
>> brother who is a Rancher, a good friend of mine who is a mechanic and either 
>> wears gloves or his hands are full of oil and grease.. I somehow doubt Apple 
>> will once again replace Face Id with Touch Id and if they can implement a 
>> Touch Id home button like on some iPads or even better under-glass Touch Id 
>> then people have the best of both worlds. I think a phone which you drag 
>> around everywhere would be better with under-glass Touch Id because I could 
>> see where a Touch Id home button could get damaged.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf 
>> Of Johna Gravitt
>> Sent: October 4, 2021 10:54 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: This is why you should wait for the iPhone 14
>> 
>> I'm personally still bothered by the fact that they got rid of the home 
>> button If they get rid of touch id wouldn't that make it harder for VO users?
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf 
>> Of Christopher Chaltain
>> Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 1:49 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: This is why you should wait for the iPhone 14
>> 
>> Well, there's also customer demand. I know if all things were equal, and I 
>> had the option to have touch ID included, then I'd go with the phone that 
>> offered me touch ID. I don't know if the demand is strong enough for Apple 
>> to consider this, or if Apple would even take this into account. I'd also be 
>> a little skeptical about reading Apple's reasons why they don't include 
>> touch ID. Sure, it may be because they think face ID is more secure, but 
>> they were also able to get rid of the home button and a finger print 
>> scanner. It'll be interesting to see if they consider in screen touch ID in 
>> the future.
>> 
>> --
>> Christopher (AKA CJ)
>> Chaltain at Outlook
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf 
>> Of Ed Worrell
>> Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 9:22 AM
>> To: 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: This is why you should wait for the iPhone 14
>> 
>> I really don't think Apple is going to utilize Touch ID in the iPhones going 
>> forward. Face ID works beautifully and it gets better with every release. 
>> 
>> Apple keeps updating patents for Touch ID which means they're actively 
>> working on it, but this also means if they keep updating the patents they 
>> haven't found the technology to work up to their standards.
>> 
>> Just my two cents on the topic.
>> 
>> Ed
>> 
>> 
>>>> On Sep 24, 2021, at 9:49 PM, Simon A Fogarty <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> This was mentioned in a mac rumours release
>>> 
>>> They believe the under screen touch id will be in the 2023 release 
>>> of the iPhone and a folding iPhone in 2024
>>> 
>>> Me,
>>> Don't care
>>> I just know it will get here when it gets here.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf 
>>> Of Sieghard Weitzel
>>> Sent: Saturday, 25 September 2021 5:13 am
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: RE: This is why you should wait for the iPhone 14
>>> 
>>> Why are you so sure the iPhone 14 won't have under-glass Touch Id or 
>>> incorporate a Touch Id side button??
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf 
>>> Of Kelly Pierce
>>> Sent: September 23, 2021 7:16 PM
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Re: This is why you should wait for the iPhone 14
>>> 
>>> Links worked fine. My comment was for those holding their breath for the 
>>> iPhone 14. Their beloved fingerprint reader will not be happening.
>>> For those of us who crave small phones, jump on the iPhone 13 before it 
>>> goes away.  It's double the storage of last year's 12 for the same price.
>>> 
>>> Kelly
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 9/23/21, Richard Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Kelly,
>>>> Are you sending this to show that the links broke up on you?
>>>> The links worked fine for me in Outlook on my computer.
>>>> Are you set to read HTML eemails?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Richard
>>>> "Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with 
>>>> it."
>>>> - Jane Wagner
>>>> 
>>>> My Web site: 
>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>>>> turner42.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C83969b1681c5442ab87808d987425d3
>>>> 4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637689541364020629%7
>>>> C
>>>> U
>>>> nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik
>>>> 1 h 
>>>> aWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=CZXQ%2FlnKWeRGqaZJoveQg2wpJmtSojT
>>>> Vqn7OjnTSzAs%3D&reserved=0
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf 
>>>> Of Kelly Pierce
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2021 4:21 PM
>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>> Subject: Re: This is why you should wait for the iPhone 14
>>>> 
>>>> On 9/23/21, Sieghard Weitzel <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Forget Apple's iPhone 13, this is the smartphone to
>>>>> buy<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F
>>>>> %25
>>>>> 2
>>>>> F
>>>>> w
>>>>> ww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Fgordonkelly%2F2021%2F09%2F22%2Fapple-iphon
>>>>> e
>>>>> -
>>>>> 1
>>>>> 4
>>>>> -design-leak-upgrade-redesign-upgrade-iphone-13-pro-max%2F%3Fsh%3D
>>>>> 1
>>>>> c
>>>>> e
>>>>> 3
>>>>> b5021ee2&data=04%7C01%7C%7C16d0dc4ee13442cc373f08d97ee8daa8%7C84
>>>>> d
>>>>> f
>>>>> 9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637680360836646554%7CUnknow
>>>>> n
>>>>> %
>>>>> 7
>>>>> C
>>>>> TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>>>>> J
>>>>> X
>>>>> V
>>>>> C
>>>>> I6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nmbZP5GuxWBBA2uL%2F0wl3LFEw9UHreZMYTk%2Bgu
>>>>> 0
>>>>> E
>>>>> IDw%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>> 
>>>>> And if you really need a new phone now, here is another thing to 
>>>>> consider if you are trying to decide between an iPhone 12 and 13:
>>>>> 
>>>>> iPhone 13 battery life tests show huge improvements over iPhone
>>>>> 12<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
>>>>> 252
>>>>> F
>>>>> w
>>>>> w
>>>>> w.imore.com%2Fiphone-13-battery-life-tests-show-huge-improvements-
>>>>> o
>>>>> v
>>>>> e
>>>>> r
>>>>> -iphone-12&data=04%7C01%7C%7C16d0dc4ee13442cc373f08d97ee8daa8%7C
>>>>> 8
>>>>> 4
>>>>> df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637680360836656494%7CUnkn
>>>>> o
>>>>> w
>>>>> n
>>>>> %
>>>>> 7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwi
>>>>> L
>>>>> C
>>>>> J
>>>>> X
>>>>> VCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=s6hfKJAv8FaGTZoW3pDbFSap489VTrYtKTnz08iW
>>>>> g
>>>>> B
>>>>> s%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V 
>>>>> iPhone list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
>>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 
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>>>>> itself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>>>>> [email protected].  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach 
>>>>> Cara at [email protected]
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>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>>>>> 7
>>>>> C
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>>>>> J X 
>>>>> VCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ULSjCT38dpJmf6PE0ZFoV6VoAOxW9xJuSiI6maaI
>>>>> oUA%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> a
>>>>> il-archive.com%2Fviphone%40googlegroups.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7
>>>>> C
>>>>> 1
>>>>> 6d0dc4ee13442cc373f08d97ee8daa8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>>>>> %
>>>>> 7
>>>>> C
>>>>> 1
>>>>> %7C0%7C637680360836656494%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
>>>>> M
>>>>> D
>>>>> A
>>>>> i
>>>>> LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=N7Uf
>>>>> J
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>>>>> ---
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>>>>> send an email to [email protected].
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V 
>>>> iPhone list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 
>>>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>>> itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>>>> [email protected].  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>>>> at [email protected]
>>>> 
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>>>> m
>>>> a%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C83969b1681c5442ab87808d987425d34%7C84df9e7
>>>> fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637689541364030588%7CUnknown%7C
>>>> T
>>>> W
>>>> FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV
>>>> C I 
>>>> 6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3LeINvgMBIe1Ho0JZ%2BUMhWU3Re9Ge8TXVmuXnc2ZHO
>>>> k%3D&reserved=0
>>>> il-archive.com%2Fviphone%40googlegroups.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C
>>>> 1
>>>> 6d0dc4ee13442cc373f08d97ee8daa8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%
>>>> 7
>>>> C
>>>> 1
>>>> %7C0%7C637680360836656494%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM
>>>> D
>>>> A
>>>> i
>>>> LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=N7UfJ
>>>> Q
>>>> 8rRRRbnE24TEzp5KhYivr5URZSF8mF%2BGk3QTk%3D&reserved=0
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
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>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
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>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V 
>>>> iPhone list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 
>>>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>>> itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>>>> [email protected].  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>>>> at [email protected]
>>>> 
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>>>> m
>>>> ail-archive.com%2Fviphone%40googlegroups.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7
>>>> C83969b1681c5442ab87808d987425d34%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
>>>> a
>>>> %
>>>> 7C1%7C0%7C637689541364030588%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLj
>>>> A w 
>>>> MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=e
>>>> 3zrxuKJC4Yg3ks2kMpfRF0cKFmxXmoEZ1VO8BQKiwM%3D&reserved=0
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
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>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
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>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
>>> [email protected].  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>>> at [email protected]
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>>> m%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C45b7319fec9d4a9d1e0a08d9876e910a%7C84df9e
>>> 7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637689731228474691%7CUnknown%7C
>>> TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX
>>> VCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=cUPbC8TwUPcq%2BQXjQ0Uk5GEdSzd%2F1qtAY2zY
>>> wYl1Y%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>> a
>>> il-archive.com%2Fviphone%40googlegroups.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C8
>>> 3969b1681c5442ab87808d987425d34%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7
>>> C
>>> 1
>>> %7C0%7C637689541364030588%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMD
>>> A i 
>>> LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=e3zrxu
>>> KJC4Yg3ks2kMpfRF0cKFmxXmoEZ1VO8BQKiwM%3D&reserved=0
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>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
>>> [email protected].  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>>> at [email protected]
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>>> m%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C45b7319fec9d4a9d1e0a08d9876e910a%7C84df9e
>>> 7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637689731228474691%7CUnknown%7C
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>>> wYl1Y%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>> a
>>> il-archive.com%2Fviphone%40googlegroups.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C8
>>> 3969b1681c5442ab87808d987425d34%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7
>>> C
>>> 1
>>> %7C0%7C637689541364030588%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMD
>>> A i 
>>> LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=e3zrxu
>>> KJC4Yg3ks2kMpfRF0cKFmxXmoEZ1VO8BQKiwM%3D&reserved=0
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>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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