Well, the suggestion I posted has nothing to do with you personally. 
<Smile>. it's a general, unbiased suggestion, and had anyone else made it, I 
would have suggested the same thing. It was another lister who turned this 
into a bit of an ad hominem discussion.

Joseph

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neil Barnfather - TalkNav" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: Apple App Store & Refunds for inaccessible Apps


Joseph,

As Sieghard has said, I'm not one for such things, and have been a positive 
advocate of our community online and off line for many, many years now… I 
would recommend that you check out my web-site; neilbarnfather.com for some 
information and this might explain a little more about myself and my work.





Regards,

Neil Barnfather

Talks List Administrator
Twitter @neilbarnfather

TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple 
iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your
accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com

URL: - www.talknav.com
e-mail: - [email protected]
Phone: - +44  844 999 4199

On 11 Sep 2013, at 17:13, Joseph FreeTech <[email protected]> wrote:

> Very smart suggestion. Let's say we all jump on this bandwagon (once 
> again),
> and in the end we discover that whoever the original person this happened 
> to
> was very nasty and demanding to the Apple customer service employees; 
> hence
> the poor service. We're all going to be very embarrassed and not likely to
> take this issue up again in the future. We first need proof of a pattern 
> of
> poor service and not just some single person's complaint.
>
> Joseph
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lisa belville" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:59 AM
> Subject: Re: Apple App Store & Refunds for inaccessible Apps
>
>
> Hi.  Is there any way you could share a letter showing how the Apple 
> people
> were patronizing/unhelpful in this regard?  I understand the frustration 
> of
> not getting a refund for something inaccessible and how a clueless rep 
> makes
> this all the more annoying, but IMO there's a difference between
> politely/patiently conveying a policy and being patronizing.  Obviously, 
> you
> can take out any names in this letter, but it would be good to see an
> example of this attitude.  Could it possibly be this particular rep's 
> issue
> and not necessarily one of Apple itself?  I'm referring to the
> patronizing/unsympathetic attitude and not the policy itself.
>
> Lisa
>
>
>
> There is a fine line between genius and insanity and that difference is a
> paycheck!
> Lisa Belville
> [email protected]
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Neil Barnfather - TalkNav" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; "The
> Accessible Phones Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 8:58 AM
> Subject: Apple App Store & Refunds for inaccessible Apps
>
>
> The below should prove a concern to all Apple accessibility feature users,
> and I would urge as many of you who can do so, to please write to Apple
> yourselves to express your concern along the same lines where possible…
> ([email protected]).
>
> For years now Apple has led the way in accessibility standards and
> application of methods in interacting with all of its product range.
> Internationally within many disability arenas Apple is celebrated as the
> defacto standard and is widely acknowledged as users preferred platform 
> for
> persons with accessibility issues.
>
> Whether or not the App Store had an unofficial policy towards customers 
> with
> accessibility needs or not, is unknown to me. What I am aware of is that
> where I've bought Apps which turn out not to be accessible, Apple App 
> Store
> has always been prompt to refund the purchase immediately without 
> question.
>
> Since Apple do not enforce accessibility standards, nor in anyway 
> whatsoever
> offer a method of a disabled user to know whether or not an App is, or is
> not, accessible in advance of purchase, this seemed to be a most 
> reasonable
> compromise.
>
> However, in correspondence over the past week with Apple iTunes support
> staff via e-mail in relation to an App I have purchased which is
> inaccessible, Apple's stance has been both surprising and frankly highly
> dismissive of our needs and vulnerability when using Apple's App Store.
>
> I have been point blank refused a refund upon this occasion, with staff
> suggesting that I could leave a review for the App which others could 
> read,
> and or write to the developer. Whilst I understand that the second
> suggestion may illicit a positive response, and sometimes it does… In many
> instances developers haven't even heard of Voice Over let alone understand
> what it does and how they aught to address compliance with Apple's
> Accessibility API's.
>
> Of course, the best approach would be for Apple to make compliance with 
> its
> Accessibility API's a requirement for all new Apps being approved to the 
> App
> Store, indeed a range of other options would also work, such as; a 
> discount
> on the 30% cut that Apple takes for compliant Apps, a penalty higher fee
> (35% etc) for those that do not comply and perhaps indicating with a 
> marker
> in the App store which Apps do meet the requirements.
>
> Since Apple do none of these, despite so publicly professing to up holding
> and supporting some of the most well implemented accessibility innovation
> and support seen in the industry, it seemed like a fair compromise that
> Apple voluntarily and without complication offered a refund to customers 
> who
> had accessibility needs where an App proved to be inaccessible.
>
> The situation now, though is that Apple is refusing in an uncompromising 
> and
> frankly shocking way to refund such purchases, with patronising and
> unsympathetic suggestions as to how we, as blind users, go about reviewing
> Apps etc.
>
> I would ask that Apple firstly developed a robust policy in this regard, 
> and
> secondly, reviews options as to improving the compliance uptake of
> developers within their iOS and Mac App Stores.
>
> So that I  can convey your response to the ViPhone, Macvisionaries and 
> other
> Apple Accessibility user forums promptly, I would sincerely appreciate 
> your
> earliest feedback and response on this issue.
>
> Yours kindly.
>
> Regards,
>
> Neil Barnfather
>
> http://www.NeilBarnfather.com
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Neil Barnfather
>
> Talks List Administrator
> Twitter @neilbarnfather
>
> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple
> iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your
> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
>
> URL: - www.talknav.com
> e-mail: - [email protected]
> Phone: - +44  844 999 4199
>
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