Hi Kyle, Good work and good reporting, as always! Some comments below.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster?? > Howdy folks, > > Well, I bit (past tense of "I'll bite") so I made one of these things > and tested it. It does work, as Miklos Borbas says, but some things need > to be addressed here. > > 1. The power supply I used outputs 10 - 30kVDC at around 5mA. Higher > current is available, but I limit it to this to be safe, and besides, > this device does not need even 5mA. Frequency and duty cycle are > variable. (pulsating DC, please note) It was set at 1.7kcps at the time, > so I used that. Using 60cps didn't make much of a difference in > performance, what little decrease there was I would attribute to the > fact that I used a 1000pF filtering capacitor in all the tests, and > obviously, it is going to like higher frequencies better. 8kcps didn't > make a difference either. > > 2. With no plastic covers (Miklos' ping pong balls), it works like an > electric pinwheel, just like we used to run from a Wimshurst machine, at > which point everyone was amused. Yes, the tips are repelled by the like-signed ion cloud they continually replenish, more current = more ions nearby= more repulsive force. The ion cloud "backs itself" against the ambient air it collides with. > 3. Cover the ends of the wires on the pinwheel with plastic spheres (or > cubes, in my case) and thrust is zero, or bloody near. > > 4. Put "corona wires" fanning out from the axis of rotation of the > pinwheel, about 3 inches below it, and pointed so that they emit > radially, and not tangentially (so they contribute little to any > wind-caused thrust) and the thing begins spinning in the opposite > direction as before, towards the charged face of the plastic "covers". Ah yes I had forgotten about those stator bound emitters in the Borbas device! Indeed, to develop what you say in point 8 below, those become the strongest (the only basically) ion emitters when the pinwheel's tips are covered, so that counteremission (a well known effect in lifters with not well smoothed skirts which lowers the net thrust by inducing a small reverse thrust) now dominates the emission (now basically zero, as correctly pointed out by Horace). If the covers were conductive instead of high resistivity plastic the thing would rotate backwards too, only faster because they would enable a stronger ionic current and therefore a stronger thrust. The chasing effect you and GOB describe is to be expected, it's due to opposite sign image charge induced at the surface of the approaching object (effect discussed with Fred Sparber many times). Also I understand your reluctance (pun intended) about disclosing the details of your HV supply. Have you worked out (or experimented ;-) whether the energy stored in your output capacitor was lethal or not? Michel > 5. Aim the corona wires toward the faces of the plastic covers on the > pinwheel, and the thing spins faster. You can hear the corona at this > point, and things around the device readily pick up a charge. > > 6. Put a plastic bag around the thing, one HV wire going into the top > from straight above, opposite HV supply wire going into the bottom of > the bag from straight below, and the device still rotates, but reduced > somewhat. Move your hand within 12-18 inches of the bag, and the device > will turn to chase your hand. It will also chase metal placed near it, > plastic, styrofoam, just about anything. > > 7. Smoke isn't moved around very much by this device. It is reasonably > clear that most of the thrust is a field interaction with the > surroundings, air and what have you. > > 8. If you look at this thing linearly, it is basically a fancy lifter. > You have a covered, non-emitting electrode (the pinwheel with the ping > pong balls/cubes) that serves only to establish a field around itself, > and you have a sharp wire that ionizes the surrounding air/medium, and > it is then pulled towards the covered electrode. I'll bet this would > even work in oil, as the lifters do, but I have no desire to dunk it in > a bucket of SAE 30. > > 9. If anyone would like me to try a few other simple things, time > permitting, I probably can, but I don't plan to spend much more time on > this. I looked at it hoping maybe something oddball was going on, it > doesn't look like there is, so I'm going to go back to other things that > do act oddball. > > 10. This is a very good example of why I quit doing much with any form > of propulsion research that involved these kinds of voltages....the > field effects and ion effects make trying to separate a possible genuine > thing from all the artifacts a horrible nightmare. > > Some more below, replying to Michel: > > Michel Jullian wrote: > >> Now you mention it, why couldn't you get a net thrust in a vacuum if the >> rotating arm was emitting electrons to ground? > > You can, but it's quite weak. Crooke used this in his (once) famous > railway tubes. Measurements reveal that it is still action-reaction > compliant. (damn it.) > >>> It is only the effect of a gradient on the >>> virtual current that can produce true net thrust. BTW, I don't think >>> that is a Biefeld Brown effect is it? Isn't his effect based on DC >>> capacitors? I'm not up on his stuff. >> >> Those things are DC capacitors indeed, albeit leaky ones. If they didn't >> leak there would be no thrust most probably. > > Leaky doesn't even begin to describe these things. :) It's less a > capacitor than an "electronic faucet". > > In any case, I got my daily dose of ozone. Smells like a thunderstorm > cruised through the lab. > > P.S., the power supply I am using is not flyback based, as the good > flybacks are scarcer than hen's teeth these days, and not very powerful > in any event. The heart of my supply is basically an induction coil with > a ferrous core that can be moved in and out and separated to give a > variable air gap to the magnetic circuit. I'm reluctant to explain > exactly how to make it, given the "standards" some of the lifter guys > use when experimenting. In other words, I don't want to give > instructions to the uninitiated on how to flame broil themselves. > > --Kyle >
