At 04:00 PM 12/5/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
A simple study that anyone can undertake will clearly reveal that
Al-Ilyah is the name of the moon god of muhammed's bediun tribe.
Well, I'd only seen this idea coming from wing nuts, but I took a
look. First of all, the idea is that the "Al-Ilyah" was elided to
"Allah." From my knowledge of Arabic, that's very unlikely,
especially given the easy elision from al-ilah, which would be
pronounced almost exactly like Allah, and, in fact, the middle ll of
Allah has a special pronunciation that emphasizes it, it's called
"lam jalalah," strong-L. It's a pretty clear sign of the elided short
vowel i., leading to a doubled L.
Yah, though, the "y," isn't going to disappear like that. It is
strongly pronounced. To English speakers, we think of the y being
pronounced with a short "i," but it's a letter of emphasis, and would
be pronounced long, al-ileeyah, most likely.
Anyway, I looked up the word in Lane's Lexicon, which is thorough
about classical Arabic. alyah (or "ilyah", that initial vowel can
vary) means "buttock" or "rump" or "posterior."
No cheese down that rathole. The spelling as "Al-Ilyah" may be idiosyncratic.
so I looked up the word. I found a Wikipedia article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah_as_Moon-god
Yeah. "A claim put forth by some Evangelical Christian groups." Not
terribly surprising, eh?
Well, some obvious implications. As the Wikipedia article points out,
"Allah" can be read as "al-ilah," and I suggest that the reverse is
actually the etymology of "Allah." The more-or-less official position
is that "Allah" is a name, and the etymology of names is not terribly
relevant, it's actual usage that counts. Anyone who is worshipping
some "god" and believes that this is the only god, or the main god,
or the important god, may refer to this god using the definite
article, "the" god. I.e., "al-ilah." Al- is the definite article.
So is it possible that moon-worshippers called their god "al-ilah"?
Of course it is! But so would the worshippers of any god, or the One God.
The writer here consistently, believes that his highly idiosyncratic
theories are "proven," that anyone who studies will, of course, agree
with him, so Right is he, in more ways than one. Obama, of course, is
not an American citizen, there is a massive conspiracy to cover up
his true birth circumstances, and, I'm sure, I could go on and on,
but *I have not been reading Jaro Jaro for a long time.*
I found no even reasonably credible sources proposing "Al-Ilyah" as a
name. What seems credible is "Al-ilah," in fact. That *might* have
been applied to the Moon god, or to any god. To really address this
would require expertise; it's claimed that old inscriptions,
pre-Islamic, used ALLH, i.e., the way Allah is written without
vowels. The truth, I don't know.
He wanted to unify the various arab tribes, so he promoted his
moon god as the equivalent of the Jewish God. When islam became
widespread, the word allah was then used synomymously with
GOD. That is why Christian arabs today use the generic word allah
to mean God. In the beginning, allah or al-ilyah has always been
the moon god of muhammed's tribe, not the universal Jewish God, or
the Christian God. Stop lying to the uninitiated in this forum.
And anyone who suggests that there might be some truth to the *widely
established and practically universal opinion among scholars,
Muslims, and Christians who speak Arabic,* is a "liar."
He's insane or simply trolling. He says that he will meet bias with
bias, so maybe he doesn't believe what he writes. But it doesn't
matter. He's trolling, as to effect. If he actually believes what he
writes, he's insane.
As for your second spin; let me get this straight. Muhammed married
a dozen women after his first wife died but for some twisted reason,
they are not considered "wives".
No, I didn't say that. They were wives. They were open, declared
marriages. Jaro doesn't know how to read.
You are actually arguing that these dozen women he took were not
his wives? Have I not spoken the truth when I said Muhammend had
dozens of wives.
No, not the truth. He had one wife, she died, and then he,
ultimately, had a dozen more. Not "dozens." If someone marries
multiple women, after death or divorce, we do not say, in English,
that this person had multiple wives, unless they were wives at the
same time. So he had a dozen, probably at the most (were they all
alive at the same time, I don't know), and I used the total count in
Wikipedia, I don't know if that's authoritative.
As to what Jaro Jaro goes on to mention, possible "concubinage,"
which involves slaves, not wives, I'm not entering that debate. We
were talking about wives, which means known, publicly established,
socially-recognized relationships, it would not include relationships
with women in other categories. There will be no end if I track down
every one of Jaro Jaro's shotgun threads.
(by the way, he did have dozens of women which we today would
justifiably call wives, may they be ceremonial wives, or just plain
concubines. They're both considered wives by definition. )
No, a concubine is not a wife, by any definition. If one marries a
concubine, she is no longer a concubine, she has marriage rights,
dowry, etc. And I don't recall any concubines for Muhammad, but many
weak traditions were later made up to justify existing practices. The
Qur'an would appear to forbid concubinage ("marry them"), but this,
again, could become very complex. No evidence was asserted for
dozens, Jaro Jaro does not cite evidence, he just tosses up quick
claims intending to offend. Classic trolling.
So you say "so what?" So what if he did have dozens of wives? OK
then. That simply tells me where your morality is. The real God
Jesus Christ said ...
Al-ilah said?
