I did not get down far enough in your first reply and was writing mine when your next one came in.
Many here are quite familiar with the skin effect. and my previous work was noninvasive glucose measurement using RF/MW frequencies from 300Khz to 20Ghz, so this is nothing new. As I said in my first response to this issue: "a mag fld should penetrate it, but due to its electrical conductivity, an E-fld would not." What I took issue with was this statement of yours: "no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel." If by 'special' you mean oscillating, then yes, but I was referring to a static B-fld. Good to have your expertise in the Collective! -Mark From: Robert Lynn [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 5:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? Mark, please note I have design experience in electromagnetics (postgrad degree in EE machine design) so as I said excepted DC (in common electrical engineering parlance that is the non-time varying portion) and possibly some very attenuated low frequency (<100's of Hz) EM my point remains. Rossi is (to me worryingly) needlessly obfuscating/preventing measurement of voltage current and so power in resistive heaters, because they do no more than supply heat to the reactor, there is no other magic in what they contribute. Many here would do well to spend a minute or two reading up on the simple concept of AC EM field exclusion via "skin effect" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect On 24 May 2013 22:18, MarkI-ZeroPoint <[email protected]> wrote: Mr. Lynn, You're a bit too quick on the trigger. Let me repeat myself, a *magnetic* field WILL penetrate most austenitic stainless steels. However, I know that a static mag-field is not the same as the magnetic component of an oscillating EM field, so I called a colleague who worked for Varian for 40 years, and who has a lot of magnetics expertise. He said that static, and possibly VLF, magnetic fields will penetrate nonmagnetic stainless steels, but that the magnetic component of EM waves of any significant frequency will probably not. Another consideration, and I think this was mentioned in the Collective two (or was it three) years ago right after Rossi's first January demonstration, is that when the electrical resistance heaters are energized (with DC), they will generate a mag-fld around them. This can probably be considered a static mag-field, and will likely penetrate the non-magnetic 310 stainless cylinder, so the internal core of the reactor may very well feel this PWM-modulated field. -Mark Iverson From: Robert Lynn [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 10:57 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? To repeat myself, there will be no significant em field penetrating the reactor. So don't try to fool yourself that there is some special secret about using em fields to instigate or promote the reaction, also Rossi has claimed in past to have it running using gas heating. Rossi's setup only allows for heat to get in. The skin depth of the 3mm thick SS vessel will exclude all fields above probably about 100-200Hz entirely, and will greatly attenuate lower frequencies as well (DC would get through) but the surrounding magnetic fields in the resistors themselves are very weak anyway. (not that many turns). If he wanted or needed magnetic fields to penetrate the reactor then he would not be using spiral wound resistors arrayed around the reactor vessel, he would have a coil wound around the reactor vessel. As such preventing measurement of current and voltage through the heating resistors looks very suspicious - as there is nothing there to be sensibly hidden if we take him at his word. On 24 May 2013 17:56, Jones Beene <[email protected]> wrote: Looks like Dardik's superwave tech is an application - not a granted patent http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardik <http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardik&ei=LJufUbH wM8XsiwLe5oDgDg&cl=en> &ei=LJufUbHwM8XsiwLe5oDgDg&cl=en Mark, In the end - it looks to me like the secrecy about the wave-from was probably due to similarity to the Energetics patent and not a "trade secret" per se; and that Rossi is using the magnetic properties of the waveform to stimulate the nickel powder, which is itself ferromagnetic. Would you agree? SS spec sheet: http://www.northamericanstainless.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Grade-310S- 314.pdf From: MarkI-ZeroPoint "It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no?" Yes, more than likely that RF could pass thru a ceramic, however, if electrically conductive, then probably not. An E or B field will most likely go thru the ceramics, but the reactor vessel is stainless steel: "The most important element of the E-Cat HT was lodged inside the structure. It consisted of an AISI 310 steel cylinder, 3 mm thick and 33 mm in diameter, housing the powder charges. Two AISI 316 steel cone-shaped caps were hot-hammered in the cylinder, sealing it hermetically. Cap adherence was obtained by exploiting the higher thermal expansion coefficient of AISI 316 with respect to AISI 310 steel." End caps are made of 316 due to greater coef of thermal expansion: 310: 15.5x10-6 316: 16.5x10-6 For our noninvasive glucose sensor, we used a Ni-plated soft iron housing which acts as both a faraday cage to shield outside EM, and to complete a magnetic flux circuit which channels the flux from internal permanent mags. Since stainless is only about 50% Fe, a mag fld should penetrate it, but due to its electrical conductivity, an E-fld would not. In that case, is he using magnetic properties to help control the reaction? Is it causing alignment of grains, or forcing dipole oscillations to be aligned? -Mark From: Jones Beene Robert Lynn wrote: And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. There is still confusion on that point. From Forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/20/finally-independent-testing -of-rossis-e-cat-cold-fusion-device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/ They described the E-Cat HT as a cylinder having a silicon nitride ceramic outer shell, 33 cm in length, and 10 cm in diameter. A second cylinder made of a different ceramic material (corundum) was located within the shell... It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no?
