I can put it more succinctly than Chuck by saying that Chuck seems to me to
have this right, front-to-back.
Three comments:
1. There was a time when WebObjects fit Apple's business model as did, e.g.,
the Xserve product. That model changed, a lot, many years ago now.
2. I don't think the current die was cast 5 years ago, I think it was probably
cast 10 or more years ago.
3. My reason for yielding to temptation: the best chance for WebObjects to
succeed, in my opinion, would have been if it had been spun off from Apple back
when customers were willing to put money down for server technology. If one had
built a strong company around the technology and then moved the company forward
as a solutions provider leveraging the technology, it is plausible that it
might have a heartbeat and own a portion of the world today.
Have those proposing to resurrect WebObjects at Apple contemplated what
percentage of the current employees, including management, even worked for the
company when WebObjects last generated revenue/profit for Apple? Off the cuff,
I think their revenue has grown 20-40 fold since that time.
Tom
On Mar 7, 2014, at 8:06 PM, Chuck Hill <ch...@global-village.net> wrote:
> Unlike iOS and OS X, Apple does not own the server platform. Communication
> is via standard protocols. And Apple is no longer in the server market.
> Bringing back WO as a product is NOT going to sell more iPhones. It is NOT
> going to make more money for Apple. Making a really good SDK and
> development tool for iOS IS going to sell more iPhones. Apple may not do
> what you want, but they are smart! They know a winning business model when
> they see one. Unfortunately for those who appreciate it, WO just never had a
> winning business model. Deal with it.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> On 2014-03-07, 6:30 PM, "Jonathan Miller" wrote:
>
> It's all about iPhone and iPad sales and one of the things that makes Apple's
> devices the best is the quantity and quality of the applications in the
> platform. And the application server is an essential component to many iOS
> and Mac applications with the prime example being iTunes.
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Pascal Robert <prob...@macti.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Envoyé de mon iPhone
>
> Le 2014-03-07 à 21:05, Jonathan Miller <jlmil...@kahalawai.com> a écrit :
>
>> I know you guys are right and I loathe to involve myself in this discussion
>> but here goes nothing...
>>
>> Does Apple make a lot of money selling XCode?
>
> They make money by selling laptops to developers and by taking 30% of
> revenues in the app stores.
>
>> It seems to me that WO is another tool that Apple could support that
>> enables developers to make great applications for their platform. After
>> all, the application server is an important component to many if not most
>> iOS apps.
>>
>> my 2 cents...
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Nilton Lessa <nle...@molequedeideias.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Em 07/03/2014, às 21:46, Pascal Robert <prob...@macti.ca> escreveu:
>> >
>> >
>> >> Le 2014-03-07 à 19:21, Aaron Rosenzweig <aa...@chatnbike.com> a écrit :
>> >>
>> >> Am I right or what? WO is an elite “gentleman’s club” There are those “in
>> >> the circle” and those outside.
>> >
>> > For the record, I’m not the one who contacted a senior VP.
>> >
>> >> If Mark wants to send a note of praise to someone, why not? Even if it is
>> >> Tim Cook. Will anything bad come of that? It may fall on deaf ears but
>> >> that’s ok.
>> >
>> > It’s just that every year, in the answers in the surveys, I still people
>> > asking for something from Apple. Even if we said many times that Apple
>> > management don’t give a damn.
>>
>> >
>> >> Mark, I’m glad you love WO.
>> >>
>> >> For those who may wonder, I’ll summarize what I believe Pascal is
>> >> alluding to:
>> >>
>> >> Even if WO sold very well, “well” would be a relative term. Compared to
>> >> their other product lines, a good line of sales related to WO would mean
>> >> nothing compared to Apple’s other product lines. How many developers are
>> >> there in the world? Compare that to consumers.
>> >>
>> >> Apple does not need to make other programmer’s lives easier on the
>> >> server. It would be nice but there is no need (for Apple).
>> >>
>> >> If Apple were to open source WO, it may mean they have less of an ace up
>> >> their sleeve in negotiations with other companies when legal issues crop
>> >> up. “You want to sue me for this? then I’ll sue you for your use of
>> >> Key-Value-Coding so why don’t we just not sue each other ok?” Open
>> >> sourcing WO could weaken Apple’s stance in legal battles for no monetary
>> >> gain.
>> >>
>> >> The ONLY way to open source WO would be to buy it from Apple… but even
>> >> then… it would have to be a lot of money to make it worth the legal
>> >> trouble of figuring out if that is a good financial deal for Apple.
>> >
>> > And since a major group (iTunes) use it, not going to happen. But we could
>> > open source it, by rewriting it and by replacing some stuff by
>> > alternatives.
>> Yes, I strongly agree with Pascal, it's the only(and good) option for future.
>> >
>> >> I can think of a few cases where Apple technology was freed up to the
>> >> world but in both of those cases they had strong supporters on the inside
>> >> to make it happen:
>> >>
>> >> 1. Apple released it’s Smalltalk and core team to Walt Disney and Disney
>> >> let it be open source:
>> >> http://ftp.squeak.org/docs/OOPSLA.Squeak.html
>> >>
>> >> 2. Apple Newton’s “Dylan” language was released and became a commercial
>> >> product for a while:
>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Dylan_programming_language
>> >
>> > Both happened in the 90s.
>> >
>> >> AARON ROSENZWEIG / Chat 'n Bike
>> >> e: aa...@chatnbike.com t: (301) 956-2319
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Mar 7, 2014, at 6:04 PM, Pascal Robert <prob...@macti.ca> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Please please please... Someone went as far as asking for support by
>> >>> talking to an Apple Senior VP, and the answer was: NO! Stop thinking
>> >>> that Apple will help us after 5 years without any help from Apple. They
>> >>> even stopped contributing to Wonder 3 years ago.
>> >>>
>> >>> Envoyé de mon iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>>> Le 2014-03-07 à 17:59, Mark Wardle <m...@wardle.org> a écrit :
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi all.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It is sad to hear the despondency permeating through the email list
>> >>>> today.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I think many of us have achieved so much with this technology stack,
>> >>>> solutions that would be much more difficult with other technologies.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I think Apple is missing a trick here. Perhaps I am naive but isn’t
>> >>>> their focus on vertical integration? WebObjects is and could be the
>> >>>> server side answer for iOS in the enterprise. For me, we’re just about
>> >>>> to deploy our first iOS apps running on iPads in our outpatient
>> >>>> clinics, linking to our WebObjects applications handling all of the
>> >>>> complex business logic that we need in healthcare. We’ve achieved this
>> >>>> on a shoestring and it’s due to the great design - seen in WebObjects
>> >>>> and of course, by logical extension in the related frameworks inherited
>> >>>> from NeXT in modern Apple operating systems.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Personally, I want Apple stuff in the enterprise - in my enterprise -
>> >>>> in my outpatient clinic. I think it would make a tremendous difference
>> >>>> to how we provide healthcare. WebObjects is such a good fit for iOS
>> >>>> devices I just cannot believe that Apple does not want to support such
>> >>>> a great and productive technology.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Whatever the case, my WebObjects applications are still running and we
>> >>>> are getting more and more users here in this part of the UK! It is just
>> >>>> a shame Apple seems to have given up on it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I’ve copied in Tim Cook to this. At the back of my mind, I’m hoping
>> >>>> he’ll take an interest, realise overnight what a great technology this
>> >>>> is and how it can be a great product for both large and small
>> >>>> enterprises, can form part of a great technology stack and support iOS,
>> >>>> and as such, re-incarnate WebObjects - the technology we love! Mr Cook
>> >>>> - could Apple un-deprecate this technology please? It is really rather
>> >>>> good!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best wishes,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Mark
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Dr. Mark Wardle
>> >>>> Consultant Neurologist, University Hospital Wales, Cardiff, UK
>> >>>> Email: mark.war...@wales.nhs.uk or m...@wardle.org Twitter: @mwardle
>> >>>> Telephone: 02920745274 (secretary) or facsimile: 02920744166
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
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