Hi Karthik,

I totally agree with you: it is almost impossible to write something
that everybody likes.
It might well be that most other readers love the book and find it
absolutely perfekt to learn Wicket. I think it depends a lot on what you
expect, what you previous experience is and how much your development
style matches the style of the author of a book you read.

I simply stated my opinion after having read the book. I know you did
not pick the title (after all, ALL the books are called 'Pro' something
:) but I wanted to make sure people understand it is NOT a book for
advanced topics or 'PROfessionals' but merely an introduction - again
only in my opinion, of course. :)
After all the praise from the others I also wanted to point out the
things I dislike - to keep the equilibrium let's say.

I also agree that deadlines are a bitch. But like with writing software,
you have to convince people (your bosses) that some things just cannot
be done in less time than they take. Deadlines are deadlines, but you
are delivering a product that you should be proud of and not have to say
'Well, the deadlines, you know..." every time somebody asks about it.
Especially in a book that targets an audience who has never had contact
with this brand new framework and will be likely to adopt the coding
style you promote, I would have wished for cleaner, more reusable and
'proper' examples. And as I stated in my last email, I personally do not
like the way of saying 'Let's do it like this!' and then a chapter later
you revoke it all because it can be done quicker and cleaner
differently. Then rather pick an example to demonstrate what you want to
show that actually HAS a use...

Anyway, I hope people find the book more of a help than I did and I will
definitely hava a look at "Wicket in Action". :)

// Che



> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of karthik Guru
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 4:07 PM
> To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Pro Wicket: Great first book on wicket
> 
> To say that I really feel sorry that the book didn't prove to be of
> much use to you would be an understatement. How I wish it were within
> my capacity to refund the money to all those who bought the book and
> didn't like it! :(
> 
> As for 'Pro' , I didn't pick the title. The publisher's interpretation
> seems to be a little different.
> I'm not really at fault here.
> 
> May be I should have read - 'Tapestry in Action' / 'JSF In action'.
> Also, its important to realize that the possibilities are endless with
> Wicket and there is this dreaded thing called a 'deadline'. Plus
> writing a book on a beta (Wicket was 1.2 beta then) product is not
> easy either.
> 
> On the brighter side, "Wicket in Action" will be here!  and I do get
> emails from readers thanking me for introducing them to this excellent
> framework! . I think that's great for the community.
> 
> > P.S.: There are quite a lot of typos and inconsistencies in the beta
> > version I read. I guess that has changed or will change soon...
> 
> Yes, I have passed on the corrections to the publisher.
> 
> - Karthik
> 
> On 9/14/06, Che Schneider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hey,
> >
> > I have to agree with Gavin: the book is indeed a bit rough.
> > For example, the auther takes loads of time to elaborate certain
> > 'features' while others are being handled as if he expects 
> the audience
> > to know what he is talking about.
> > The examples are imo completely useless in real life since they
> > sometimes violate DRY and are all a little too much meant 
> as an example.
> > This is another weak point: the auther prints pages of 
> source that you
> > go through and finally understand (since his explanations 
> are sometimes
> > not really to the point) just to find a sentence at the end going:
> > "Well, this is not really nice, why don't we do this instead!". And
> > there come another couple of pages of source.
> > The information you get from the book also does not help 
> you to develop
> > nice applications: I really had to get used to the new way 
> of writing
> > web apps with wicket. If you are an experienced J2EE 
> developer you need
> > the information presented in a way that does not tell you 
> how to solve a
> > certain problem (THAT I can always find on the internet) but how do
> > DESIGN and COMPOSE your application.
> > It feels like the author DOES have a profound knowledge of 
> wicket. He
> > just does not really know how to pass it on to the audience 
> and how much
> > background he can expect from the readers.
> >
> > That said I must admit that it is a decent introductory 
> book, especially
> > since there is nothing like it anywhere on the web. Many of the
> > questions that come up here are actually being answered in the book.
> > Don't get confused by the title, though: it is definitely not 'Pro'
> > Wicket!
> >
> > //Che
> >
> > P.S.: There are quite a lot of typos and inconsistencies in the beta
> > version I read. I guess that has changed or will change soon...
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Gavin
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 1:32 AM
> > > To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Subject: [Wicket-user] Pro Wicket: Great first book on wicket
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I have been looking at wicket for some time. I found it after
> > > looking at
> > > many other frameworks (Struts, Spring, WebWork, etc). Wicket
> > > seemed to be
> > > the best suited to my needs (more java focused with great 
> components).
> > > Although, technically, it had one the web framework race 
> for me, its
> > > documentation was minimal to non-existent (esp high level non
> > > api docs).
> > >
> > > Now there is finally a book that addresses this issue.
> > > APress will be publishing Pro Wicket
> > > (http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10189)
> > > I bought the beta e-book online (US$20) and it is very good.
> > > So a big thanks
> > > to Karthik Gurumurthy.
> > >
> > > The book is almost complete (although a little rough and
> > > could use some more
> > > editing). It covers the Wicket basics very well, 
> explaining why you do
> > > things (which is often more important than how).
> > >
> > > Chapters cover:
> > > - setting up wicket (quick start)
> > > - validation
> > > - layout
> > > - integration with spring, velocity
> > > - localization
> > > - components (and wicket extensions)
> > > - ajax
> > > - unit testing
> > > and even wicket 2
> > >
> > > Pro:
> > > - Easy to read
> > > - Great coverage of Wicket
> > > - Addresses the why as well as the how
> > > - Covers advanced topics like unit testing, integration with other
> > > frameworks, wicket 2
> > >
> > > Cons:
> > > - Still a little rough (some needless repetition, 
> references to tomcat
> > > instead of jetty)
> > > - Although the spring integration was interesting, there was
> > > a little too
> > > much of it
> > > - Some key code was not in bold. The bold really helped 
> me find the
> > > important line so when it was not there I really missed it.
> > >
> > > So, if you are using wicket (or plan to or even using
> > > something like struts
> > > and want to know what the fun, easy alternative is) get 
> wicket and Pro
> > > Wicket.
> > > Note: There is also a sample chapter that can be downloaded free.
> > >
> > > Now all I have to do is find time to play with Wicket...
> > >
> > > You can see some other comments at on Pro Wicket at
> > > https://chillenious.wordpress.com/2006/08/18/beta-ebook-pro-wi
> > cket-available/
> > >
> > > PS:
> > > Wicket in Action is supposed to be in the works so that would
> > > make 2 great
> > > wicket books. Keep it up.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://chillenious.wordpress.com/2006/08/18/beta-ebook-pro-wi
> > cket-available/
> > > --
> > > View this message in context:
> > > http://www.nabble.com/Pro-Wicket%3A-Great-first-book-on-wicket
> > -tf2268721.html#a6296863
> > > Sent from the Wicket - User forum at Nabble.com.
> > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
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> -----------
> > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web 
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> > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on 
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> 
> 
> -- 
>  -- karthik --
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web 
> services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make 
> your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on 
> Apache Geronimo
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