Hi James,
thanks for the pointer to [1].
1. "The main use case
of Wikidata (a centralised, multi-lingual site that serves as a data
repository) is different from that of SMW (a data-enhanced MediaWiki)"
OK, SMW installations can be centralized repositories (try DSMW) and
obviously can be multilingual too. So what's the difference between
these use cases? The distinction of "data repository" vs "data-enhanced"
is too fine for me to understand.
2. "Also, the more complex
structures in Wikidata could be captured in SMW using internal objects."
Exactly, my, point. So build-out SMW don't trivialize SMW don't harm the
SMW community. See [[meta:wikitopics]] for my first cut at capturing the
"more complex structures" in SMW: storing Dublin Core records as
subobjects, containing (pointer-to) values-of the property. Hardly
rocket science!
3. "The user interface of Wikibase Repository will be
based on input forms, and thus quite different from SMW. " From this I
conclude that Wikidata forms will not populate any template (eg {{{for
template|Infobox}}}) - but invocation of the same machinery is being
done under the covers. From this I conclude that the entire approach of
Semantic Forms is being tossed away. It is saying that noone can use
wikidata to maintain structured data attached to a page via templates
nor use wikidata forms to implement their own forms -- so highly
specialized to what end I cannot fathom.
4. "It is not defined yet
what kind of query language Wikidata will support in Phase 3 (or
thereafter)" -- yet another tack that makes SMW irrelevant in a
wikidata-world. Why not build-out SMW to more efficiently handle
multilingual values? SMW installations want that too!
In summary about
[1], SMW installations want provenance data too, you know. We want to
keep using SMW, not install a new functionally highly similar extension
that can only lead to overlap confusion inefficiency. The operative
presumption of [1] is that SMW cannot/will not ever support provenance
data... surely the author should give more credit to creative SMW
developers.
_re_: performance - I am referring to duplicated
functionality between wikidata & smw... (I also am very thankful for
recent performance work going on)... See #5 in [1] for specific examples
of such duplication... and with that fact now documented, how can anyone
say that the audiences diverge?
- jmc
On 13.06.2012 09:41, James HK
wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Being only a "minor" member of the SMW
community, I'd like to respond
> to some of your assumptions you made
about the SMW community as whole.
>
>>> ... cessation of SMW
development
>
> "Some of us" where worried at beginning of the wikidata
project but I
> think Markus tried to ease those fears a bit in his
email from 01 May
> 2012 (see [1]).
>
>>> SMW subjectively seems to be
encountering quality control issues lately
>
> SMW as a community
relies on its members to ensure quality control and
> if you look at the
commit/review statistics than you can see that only
> a handful of
people have actively committed work for SMW 1.7/SMW 1.8
> which means to
exercise quality control the community is relying on
> those actively
involved.
> ... performan
>
>> ion to wikidata but I can see from a SMW
perspective that several efforts are being considered to cease
unnecessary overhead (see [3] [4] [5]). Of course some extensions t
> s
basis such as Semantic Drilldown have yet to come up with an intelligent
caching strategy to minimize its impact on performance. (For example in
our case we have nearly 1.5M triplets and we can feel when Semantic
Drilldown is doing a database select with a large filter set). ...
[[wikidata]] is doomed for not creating stakeholders within the
wiki-user community that includes SMW developers
>
> Some of the SMW
core developers are actively involved in the wikidata
> project
therefore this fear mi> common code base as it would help to ensure
quality control in future and those who know the wikidata code base may
feel encouraged to commit to SMW as well. SMW and wikidata certainly
have a divergent target audiences but as a communit
> pe to see a
symbiotic relationship between SMW and wikidata without having to refute
neither of both. [1]
http://wikimedia.7.n6.nabble.com/SMW-and-Wikidata-Was-SMW-devel-Semantic-MediaWiki-and-Wikidata-ContentHandler-td4943107.html
[3] [2] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/SMW_and_Wikidata
[4] [3]
http://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/GSoC_2012#Accepted_proposal [5]
[4]
http://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Roadmap#JavaScript_base_for_dynamic_result_formats
[6] [5]
http://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/GSoC_2012#SMW_query_management_and_smart_updates
[7] Cheers, mwjames On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 7:03 AM,
<jmccl...@hypergrove.com [8]> wrote: Denny said: On the other hand, you
are not the only person thinking that this (Wikitopics) is a good idea
(hello Gerard!), and in the long run Wikidata could be extended to such
a system -- but for now I regard this to be out of scope for Wikidata
and I will not devote resources for this. It can be added later anyway.
Denny, I never see the long-run! Anyway, to get real, be aware there are
specific concerns about [[wikidata]] within the SMW community in the
here and n
>
>> appening a bit as SMW subjectively seems to be
encountering quality control issues lately * we worry that, whenever we
install the [[Wikidata]] extension, then the performance of client sites
will be affected by the burden of multiple forms, query and format
software modules, syntaxes, styles, artifacts etc * we worry that, since
no specific problems experienced by wiki-users have yet been identified
that [[Wikidata]] will "fix", in the end, [[wikidata]] is doomed for not
creating stakeholders within the wiki-user community that includes SMW
developers. jmc _______________________________________________
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[3]
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[4]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/SMW_and_Wikidata
[5]
http://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/GSoC_2012#Accepted_proposal
[6]
http://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Roadmap#JavaScript_base_for_dynamic_result_formats
[7]
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[8]
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