Hi Lodewijk, As we intend to use WLX Jury Tool and not Montage in Ukraine, what is expected from us?
We always publish the list of our jury members here: http://wlm.org.ua/juri/ , you can see all our jury members between 2012 and 2019. The 2020 list is still being finalised as we are still waiting for final confirmations, but we will also publish it as we did in previous years. On the other side, as we have 47.5K images in Ukraine, we will have to organise multiple rounds, including checking the images before submitting them to the jury (as no jury is able to review that many images) and possibly a final call between jury members to distribute places among the top photos. We are happy to explain our selection process but we may not have the same details as for the teams using Montage. Best regards Mykola (NickK) WLM Ukraine team --- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "effe iets anders" <[email protected]> Дата: 1 жовтня 2020, 00:49:56 Hi all, After getting feedback both on- and offlist, we arrived at the following: the Montage developers will make a page available to each jury coordinator, that they can copy and paste to a wiki page to share their process settings easily. That way it's easy to be transparent. At some point in the future, we will likely make this public by default. I do express the expectation that each national coordinator will publish their jury members (either real life name or username). It may well be that we ask you to submit this list of jurors when you submit your nominees (although we will not publish it on your behalf, that is your responsibility). Warmly, Lodewijk On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:01 PM effe iets anders <[email protected]> wrote: All great suggestions. In the past the WLM international team has also maintained a database of jurors to be backup. We had very little requests in recent years though, probably because so many people know organizers form other countries. If you're stuck, I would suggest to either ask someone you already know, or to ask this list. Most likely you have a response within 48h. But don't wait until the last minute, if you can avoid it. Jurors typically like a week to get things done (if the country isn't huge). Lodewijk On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 3:48 AM Rebecca O'Neill <[email protected]> wrote: Thank you Yaroslav, I will send you a separate email now! Having the WLE team setting up a pool of jurors like that was so helpful Anton. Yes, I could find the names and email other WLM organisers, but this system took that extra work away from me - which was hugely appreciated, especially in our first year! On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 11:45, Anton Protsiuk <[email protected]> wrote: The international WLE team this year has tried to create a database of jurors from different countries for local contests. We had a Google form for these purposes (https://forms.gle/Pj61adjgYiE6Jn687) & asked local teams whether they needed help with jury.We haven't estimated the results yet, since the local selection process is still ongoing, but it seems to have worked well. Best RegardsAnton Protsiuk Project Manager at Wikimedia Ukraine On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:05 AM Yaroslav Blanter <[email protected]> wrote: If WLM Ireland is in September I can help as a juror. If it is in October this could be more difficult because I am also in the jury for Russia, and there is typically a lot of work there. Generally, asking around (may be also on Commons) typically helps. In the past I have been on jury for a few different countries. Somebody would just approach me and ask.If I can make it, I agree. Yaroslav On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 9:50 AM Mārtiņš Bruņenieks <[email protected]> wrote: Hi, Rebecca! I have organized multiple WLM/WLE editions in Latvia. We have used Montage in most of them. After experiencing problems with jurors dropping out or being known at the last moment, we created new Wikimedia accounts just for the jury and sent the passwords to them. Montage allows some editing of jurors after the round has started but results can be unexpected. Mārtiņš On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 2:13 AM Rebecca O'Neill <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Lodewijk, As a slight aside to this, and perhaps something that might help ease some of the worries around judging processes in other countries, would it be an idea to have a pool of international WLM Wikimedia jurors that could help judge other countries? Here in Ireland we have done this with Malta, exchanging jurors over the past few years, and for our first WLE this year we had Axel from Sweden be on our jury. You get the benefit of a fellow Wikimedian who understands the whole process, and who could bring some different expertise or perspective to a country's WLM. Having someone who is completely unfamiliar with your local built heritage means they can assess the images with a different take than someone who knows them very well. After 6 years, we have found it harder to recruit a jury from our pool of active Wikimedians and relevant expert judges from the arts and architecture sectors in Ireland. I know I would really appreciate it if we could "borrow" a juror from another Wikimedia group (in the past we have had some UK help with this too with jurors). We have suffered from jurors dropping out of the process at the last minute or after judging has begun (which results in having to restart rounds in Montage), generally it has been those who are not Wikimedians who perhaps did not fully understand the commitment when they agreed. Not only is it frustrating, it's very stressful. It may be less of an issue this year, given that the deadline for submitting to the international jury won't be at the end of October. Hope that helps clarify some of the issues some of the smaller countries can face over the years of WLM! Thanks, Rebecca On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 23:57, effe iets anders <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Alexander, As for the status of Montage requests: I suggest that you start a separate thread on that, and would like to leave this to the maintainers to respond to. As for publishing the settings: I was imagining some kind of log-style publication, not a near write-up. This won't be pretty, but it will allow people to figure out how it worked out in practice. If we follow a logical naming convention, people should be able to puzzle it together. Ideally, the national organizers also publish their process on the website, but this log would be a way to verify that. But I accept your note that we may need to add a context explaining that more process may happen before/after this tool is used. Lodewijk On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 3:17 PM Alexander Tsirlin <[email protected]> wrote: Dear Lodewijk, We also intend to publish by default the settings of the montage jury tool, and the number of photos in each round that the national competitions have used. We're debating whether there should be an opt-out for this year. This is unrealistic, because jury process may involve several campaigns that are later merged together (in Russia, we do it all the time in order to meet your submission deadline). Moreover, some of the photos can be accepted for the next round within Montage but excluded later on if we find that they do not depict cultural heritage. The end result is that any number you take from Montage will not match the number of photos that we publish (e.g., as a short-list). This will only lead to confusion and won't be of any use for anyone. Since you mentioned Montage, let me also ask when two important pull requests, which were done by one of our team members, are going to be merged into the code: https://github.com/hatnote/montage/pull/169 https://github.com/hatnote/montage/pull/175 These are really, really important fixes. Without them I would have a problem creating new Montage campaigns in October. Sincerely, Alexander On 9/2/2020 11:49 PM, effe iets anders wrote: Hi all, over the past years, we have had various requests to encourage national organizers to be transparent in their judging processes and who sits on their jury. Most of the national organizers are currently transparent about this already. In the past weeks/month, more conversation around this has continued with some concerns (valid or not) on certain jury processes. In this light, the international team intends to institute a new expectation for national organizers, namely to publish the members of their jury (be it their username or real life name) at some point. We have not figured out the practical details yet, but I can imagine that while we encourage publication on the website, we would ask national organizers to add a list of jury members to their submission to the international jury - which we then will publish as well. We also intend to publish by default the settings of the montage jury tool, and the number of photos in each round that the national competitions have used. We're debating whether there should be an opt-out for this year. We will of course apply at least the same level of transparency to the international jury. Before we make this decision, I would like to ask for feedback on this, and whether there are edge cases we should consider where such transparency would be harmful. I'll take 1 week to gather some feedback on this, and then we'll make a final decision. You can respond to this on this mailing list, or privately to me. 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