Imo the lines were said by a member of a board of a chapter in her official
capacity as she was attending a board training paid fully by the "global
community" (unless she paid everything on her own and never got reimbursed
for anything)

If you keep up with this approach (which will for sure culminate in actions
clearly ignoring/"fucking" the community) in one day you will reach the
point when the community will say "so, then fuck you too".

Obviously not today, neither tomorrow, but when it comes, that day will be
the last day, when you were able to "buy free stuff" or travel around the
world for "free" or in short: have money. Until that day comes it is true
that this is not an issue, you can get away with it, 'nuff said.

The main issue here are her solution(s) to problem solving/fulfilling the
"mission". Even worse that a handful of people supports it in this thread,
namely a) spending money or b) spending more money. This is very poor/lazy
thinking.

Those having these two only in mind (or as primary solutions), should leave
their chapter positions for more creative people.

Cheers,

Vince

PS: this thread strenghtens my impression [1] that some chapters are rather
breakaway groups than (integral) parts of their local community.

[1]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AFuture_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference&diff=5611433&oldid=5611349


2014.04.08. 12:21, "Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> ezt írta:

> Hoi,
> One reason is that the license of Wikidata is questioned by members of the
> Wikidata community.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
>
> On 8 April 2014 11:27, Martijn Hoekstra <martijnhoeks...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Gerard Meijssen
> > <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> > > Hoi,
> > > From where I stand ie Wikidata, the license we use is CC-0. When a GLAM
> > > wants to share data it has to be CC-0. When it is CC-by or CC-by-sa, we
> > > cannot use it. We do not retrieve it from their database we will find
> the
> > > same data from elsewhere where there is no such burden.
> > >
> > > When people use CC-by-sa data in for instance Wikipedia, we do harvest
> > that
> > > information because once it is embedded in Wikipedia, it is no longer
> > part
> > > of the original database that prohibits us from using it based on the
> > > database rights. At that point it is part of a completely different set
> > of
> > > information. It is retrieved one factoid at a time and the origin of
> the
> > > data is no longer an issue.
> > > Thanks,
> > >       GerardM
> > >
> >
> > Why are we talking about the license of Wikidata in this thread?
> >
> > Come to think of it, why are we still talking at all in this thread?
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8 April 2014 10:40, Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Gerard,
> > > > I think you mean "There are organisations that want to share CC-0
> > > > information with us under a CC-0 license and there are those who want
> > > > to share CC-0 information under a CC-by
> > > > license." We are fine with organizations sharing CC-by information
> > > > under a CC-by license, no?
> > > >
> > > > O and I agree completely on the Wikidata thing.
> > > >
> > > > Jane
> > > > PS: I also agree that the person who said these words is, in fact a
> > > > member of the community like the rest of us and therefore has every
> > > > right to use those words in a meeting during which community issues
> > > > are being discussed. I have heard worse in discussions by members of
> > > > one part of the community (Commons people) talking about other
> members
> > > > of the community (Dutch Wikipedians) and the other way around. Maybe
> > > > it's a cultural thing and we swear a lot in our internal meetups in
> > > > the Netherlands, dunno about that, but I never felt offended when I
> > > > heard these statements and in context have agreed with both parties.
> > > >
> > > > 2014-04-08 8:22 GMT+02:00, Gerard Meijssen <
> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
> > >:
> > > > > Hoi,
> > > > > Take one step back. What our aim is, is to share in the sum of all
> > > > > knowledge. Arguably, this is the main and overriding objective of
> > what
> > > we
> > > > > do. There are many strategies to get to the point where we share
> > > > > information. From where I stand, with Wikidata we have the
> > opportunity
> > > to
> > > > > do better than with an only Wikipedia strategy: with Wikipedia we
> > share
> > > > the
> > > > > sum of knowledge that is available in one Wikipedia and with
> Wikidata
> > > we
> > > > > share in the sum of all the knowledge that is available to us.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wikidata provides access to more information than any Wikipedia by
> a
> > > > large
> > > > > margin.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are those in our communities who aim to restrict the
> practices
> > > that
> > > > > realise Wikidata as the resource of information that is available
> to
> > > us.
> > > > To
> > > > > say it in a political correct way, they can be and should be
> ignored.
> > > > There
> > > > > are organisations that want to share information with us under a
> CC-0
> > > > > license and there are those who want to share information under a
> > CC-by
> > > > > license. The later can and should be ignored as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, when I am to argue these points in a private setting, I
> will
> > > say
> > > > > that they can screw themselves. It is to make the point forcefully,
> > it
> > > is
> > > > > to hammer on the fact that our objective is not the community but
> the
> > > > > sharing of knowledge. Yes, the community is important but that is
> the
> > > > > extend of it. When we can gain authoritative information provided
> by
> > a
> > > > > GLAM, we should not consider the fact that we can enter all that
> > > > > information by hand. Those who want to add statements by hand can
> do
> > so
> > > > but
> > > > > they should not force their behaviour and attitudes on others.
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >       GerardM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 8 April 2014 00:45, Hubert Laska <hubert.la...@gmx.at> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> With all due respect, Gerard, not the bearer ofthe message, Tomas,
> > is
> > > > the
> > > > >> problem, the problem arises where there are people who can make
> > > > decisions
> > > > >> with far-reaching consequences - and be selected for it - but then
> > > > assume
> > > > >> one for me unacceptable position against that group whose services
> > are
> > > > the
> > > > >> basis for their own position.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Fuck the Community, who cares, was not the only thing, much worse
> > for
> > > me
> > > > >> is the meaning, that free knowledge is easier to buy than to get
> by
> > > > edits
> > > > >> and edits.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Of whose money? By those who make one edit after the other? Taking
> > > > photos,
> > > > >> one after another and upload them?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I know Steffen good enough and I know, that he is able to tell
> apart
> > > > >> explanations which happens within an special group dynamic
> process.
> > If
> > > > >> this
> > > > >> has occured, he would not have written this in his blog.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> h
> > > > >> Am 07.04.2014 12:52, schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>  Hoi,
> > > > >>> What is it that you intend to do. Hang them and, hang them high??
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> You already know that it was in a very emotional moment ...
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> What is your objective? What do you expect as a result and how
> will
> > > > that
> > > > >>> be
> > > > >>> in everyone's benefit??
> > > > >>> Thanks,
> > > > >>>       Gerard
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On 7 April 2014 12:16, Tomasz W. Kozlowski <
> tom...@twkozlowski.net
> > >
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>  Ziko van Dijk wrote
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>   I think that a single quote by a unnamed "female Wikimedian",
> > said
> > > > in
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> public or in private, is a very small basis for any
> substantiate
> > > > >>>>> criticism...
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>  Thanks to Chris e-mail's, we now know that the comment was
> made
> > > > during
> > > > >>>> a
> > > > >>>> public session (though I can't find the relevant section in the
> > > > minutes
> > > > >>>> on
> > > > >>>> Meta).
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> That the identity of the person is currently unknown is due to
> the
> > > > fact
> > > > >>>> that it has not been revealed by other participants in that
> > > workshop;
> > > > >>>> I'm
> > > > >>>> sure Chris, and Steffen, and other people know very well who
> that
> > > > person
> > > > >>>> is.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I'm used to the secrecy, but I find it deeply disturbing that
> > such a
> > > > >>>> comment could have been made during a public workshop "in
> > passing";
> > > > >>>> however, it would fit perfectly in the alleged divisions between
> > > some
> > > > >>>> chapters and their respective communities.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Where the idea that a single entity (here: a chapter) knows
> better
> > > > >>>> what's
> > > > >>>> best for a community than the community does itself come from,
> I'm
> > > not
> > > > >>>> sure.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>                  Tomasz
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > > >>>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > >>>> Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > ,
> > > > >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>  _______________________________________________
> > > > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > > >>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > >>> Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > > >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > >> Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > ,
> > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
<mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Reply via email to