> Fundamentally, I'd ask people to relax a bit regarding Flow. Nobody's
> planning to push this one out radically. Today we saw some on-wiki
> drama because a new test page was turned on. For something like the
> en.wp Teahouse, I'd want the hosts to be fully on-board before
> converting it over (and the rest of the community to not oppose it).
> If that's not doable, we can focus on other use cases first. It's
> early days and this one's a long haul -- just like VE. But we
> shouldn't shy away from a problem just because it's hard.

I think this is one of the points some of us here are trying to make.
We *don't* want Flow to be just like VE. We want it to be a good piece
of software that is rolled out smoothly.

There are some serious communication problems that I can already see
having a toll. Fractured discussions, issues/concerns not captured in
workflows, and many members of the community who feel like they
haven't been heard out during earlier stages of the project. We have
an opportunity to not get all wound around the axle like we have been
with MV, and that opportunity should not be thrown away.

Quite frankly, the WMF could do a lot more to improve communications
across the community with respect to Flow. Pick one forum and redirect
discussions- even this one- to it. Right now there are a few
candidates. Make sure all the takeaways from those discussions are
captured in workflows; don't let ideas get lost in archives. Choose
one place to keep your backlog- bugzilla or trello- and stick with it.
You'll need the community's help to see what works for the different
roles everyone must play to make software that works well for its
users. But the community needs your help in organizing the highly
detailed communications with users that is always required to build
good software.

It good to hear you say that this is a long haul, because Flow
obviously has a ways to go. But that doesn't mean it has to be a death
march to the same reception as VE or MV. Let's all be smarter this
time. Learning how to communicate better is a great place to start,
and I hope the feedback I've given here is helpful. Please let me know
if there is anything you can think of that I- or anyone else in the
broader community- can do to help you hit this one out of the park.


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