Which is Fundraising's point? I haven't seen anything here about why WMF so
urgently needs to request Italian donations in September.
Am 20.08.2015 07:27 schrieb "Risker" <risker...@gmail.com>:

> I can understand the frustration that members of WMIT are expressing here,
> but I also see Fundraising's point.  I wonder if there are not some other
> options that could be considered.  For example, instead of a banner,
> perhaps a big bright button on the sidebar that says "Upload images for
> Wiki Loves Monuments here!" may be technically feasible.  It's not quite
> the equivalent of a banner, but it does address the wayfinding issue at
> least.  (I think that's possibly the biggest downside of not having the WLM
> banners in rotation.)
>
> Let's give ourselves permission to think outside the box a bit here; both
> of these activities are valuable and important to our movement, each of
> them have different but viable reasons for wanting to proceed during that
> specific period. There are a lot of smart people reading this mailing list.
> I'd like to think between the several-hundred of us we might be able to
> come up with a solution that works to accommodate both groups.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On 20 August 2015 at 01:19, Romaine Wiki <romaine.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, Andrew is right. Navigation is a very important focus point of
> > organising every Wiki Loves Monuments.
> >
> > The complexity of the navigation is that MediaWiki and the whole group of
> > Wikimedia wikis is not designed for navigation, but designed for showing
> > content. In the past eight years small improvements have been made in
> this
> > field, but in general speaking it is still not easy to navigate for the
> > majority of the people.
> >
> > Romaine
> >
> > 2015-08-19 20:45 GMT+02:00 Andrea Zanni <zanni.andre...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > I think Andrew is right: the WLM banner serves as a pointer, and it's
> > very
> > > easy to remember "go on Wikipedia and click into the banner on the
> top".
> > > It's much more difficult to remember the strange name of the contest
> (in
> > > Italy it's still called "Wiki Loves Monuments", even if it's English).
> > >
> > > And of course we do not have good analytics for the banner: nobody
> knows
> > > homw many page views there are in a single wiki per day, so we cannot
> > count
> > > the clickthroughs (which we have as the link is on a WLM landing page).
> > >
> > > Aubrey
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Andrew Gray <
> andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 19 August 2015 at 14:26, Sam Klein <sjkl...@hcs.harvard.edu>
> wrote:
> > > > > There's a more general problem here we should fix:
> > > > >
> > > > > We already know that effectiveness of any single banner drops off
> > > > > dramatically after the first few views.  So there's rarely a reason
> > to
> > > > run
> > > > > a continuous banner -- certainly not if there are other banners to
> > run.
> > > >
> > > > I think we should be cautious about using our fundraising experience
> > > > to predict the efficiency of 'delayed call-to-action' banners like
> WLM
> > > > - to my mind they seem to function in quite different roles.
> > > >
> > > > The fundraising banner is calling for an immediate action. You see
> it,
> > > > and you either donate or you don't. If you decide not to donate, you
> > > > probably won't decide to donate on seeing it tomorrow, either; while
> > > > if you have donated, you're probably not going to donate again. So
> the
> > > > banner being repeated doesn't gain us much, and it has progressively
> > > > less value on the third, fourth, fifth appearances. There are
> > > > relatively few people who see a fundraising banner and decide "I'll
> > > > sleep on it", then come back tomorrow and donate. And if they *do*,
> > > > well - there's a donate link on every page, once they're looking for
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > However, WLM is calling for a delayed action - "go off, do something,
> > > > and come back again to tell us about it".
> > > >
> > > > The most desired outcome is probably that a previously uninvolved
> > > > person will see it, click through, think "that sounds fun", and go
> off
> > > > to take some photos - after all, it's running all month, they can do
> > > > it at the weekend. A few days later they come back, and want to
> upload
> > > > their photos... but if the banner's not there on Wikipedia, they
> won't
> > > > really know where to go. They might not remember the name ("Wiki
> > > > something?"), making it hard to search for the contest, and they
> > > > probably didn't bookmark the WLM pages. There isn't anything else on
> > > > the page that would help to take them there, and if they're not
> > > > involved in the projects already they probably won't know where the
> > > > information's likely to be. If we can't make sure they can find WLM
> > > > easily when they return, then we've wasted the original call to
> > > > action, we've wasted the potential contributions, *and*, most
> > > > importantly, we've wasted their time and goodwill.
> > > >
> > > > I think this difference in intended response styles makes it hard to
> > > > generalise from the "diminishing returns" experienced on fundraising.
> > > > Yes, a repeated banner will get progressively diminishing
> > > > clickthroughs. But with WLM, those second clickthroughs in some ways
> > > > provide the "value" to the first clickthrough - they need to return
> to
> > > > make the campaign a success, which isn't really a concern for
> > > > fundraising. We need to make sure that that channel is open and
> > > > visible in some way when they come back.
> > > >
> > > > Andrew.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > - Andrew Gray
> > > >   andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk
> > > >
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