Now imagine trying to explain the difference between a chapter, the Foundation and the community when they have the same name...
Lodewijk On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 1:41 PM Isaac Olatunde <reachout2is...@gmail.com> wrote: > We sometimes spend several minutes trying to explain to potentials partners > the difference between Wikipedia and Wikimedia and the relationship between > them. > > In most cases we just use "Wikipedia" so as to not confuse them. > > Of course some people would share an opposing view for many reasons but I > do think this rebranding is important. > > Regards > > Isaac > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 9:29 PM Strainu <strain...@gmail.com wrote: > > > Pe vineri, 6 septembrie 2019, Adrian Raddatz <ajradd...@gmail.com> a > > scris: > > > > > Yet another potentially good idea from the Foundation killed by the > usual > > > atrocious style of stakeholder management. No benefits framed for the > > > community, > > > > > > > > > > > > no indication that this change is coming from the bottom up, > > > > > > Huh? Have you seriously never seen people asking the difference between > > Wikipedia and Wikimedia or wiki(m|p) edians complaining about how hard it > > is to explain that difference? > > > > This change is very much a bottom up one, even if it is pushed by the WMF > > using corporate procedures rather than by the community using an RfC. > > > > > > > > > no > > > assurance that this change happens or not based on the results of the > > > consultation. > > > > > > I would say that it was pretty clear the change will happen :) > > > > Strainu > > > > > > > > You can't figure out the benefits to the community - your key > stakeholder > > > group - entirely as part of the consultation. You need to frame the > > > consultation as figuring out how to achieve pre-identified benefits to > > your > > > stakeholders in the optimal way. You should also try to get buy-in from > > key > > > community groups *before* you start consulting, and use them as part of > > the > > > consultation, so it stops being Foundation vs. the community and turns > > into > > > the Foundation collaboratively supporting community-led ideas. > > > > > > It pains me to see this being done poorly, time and time again. > > > > > > Adrian Raddatz > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 3:28 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < > > > paulospern...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > After the last disastrous WMF intervention in Wikipedia - Framgate - > I > > > > believe the timing is just perfect for the WMF to go forward with > this > > > fit > > > > of creativity of branding themselves as the "Wikipedia Foundation". > > > > > > > > It's one after another, and never stops. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Paulo > > > > > > > > Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia sexta, 6/09/2019 > > > à(s) > > > > 18:25: > > > > > > > > > I agree with Fae. I strongly oppose the proposal, and I somehow > used > > to > > > > > assume that our opinion would be asked in a structured way. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:03 PM Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from > > all > > > > > > the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond > > with > > > > > > a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt? > > > > > > > > > > > > Something along the lines of: > > > > > > "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and > they > > > > > > recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word > > "Wikipedia" > > > > > > and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons" > to > > > > > > ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the > > WMF. > > > > > > Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?" > > > > > > > > > > > > With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every > > discussion > > > > > > on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether > > > "There > > > > > > is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is > > > > > > considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual. > > Rather > > > > > > than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness > that > > > > > > comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without > > > > > > firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and > less > > > > > > credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from > embedded > > > > > > bias, especially considering the already banked investment in > > > > > > consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove > the > > > > > > spent money had impact and "value". > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration" > > > when > > > > > > communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate > > history > > > > > > and gives the impression that you are quoting views from > > > collaborators > > > > > > rather than holding open collegial discussion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Fae > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville < > > > > dranville-...@wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Pine. > > > > > > > There is a majority of people who actually oppose the > rebranding > > > > > > > proposition. > > > > > > > I don't quite understand why this is still going forward > (except > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards - > but > > > it > > > > is > > > > > > > sometimes necessary). > > > > > > > Have other options even been considered? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -speaking in my own name here- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Diane > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Zack, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for the report on Meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is > > > > > > considerable > > > > > > > > support for the brand proposal and general appetite to > improve > > > our > > > > > > > > movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to > > omit > > > is > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable > > > > > opposition > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > the rebranding proposal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having > > > > > > "considerable > > > > > > > > support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what > > appears > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > > > considerable opposition? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta > displays > > > > that > > > > > > > > measure community and affiliate support or opposition > regarding > > > the > > > > > > > > rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and > > two > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was > using > > > > those > > > > > > > > measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition > > > regarding > > > > > the > > > > > > RfC, > > > > > > > > I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as > > > declined. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune < > zmcc...@wikimedia.org> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN > design > > > > > > process for > > > > > > > > > movement branding. Please join the in-depth discussion > > group, > > > or > > > > > > watch > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens > of > > > > > > affiliates, > > > > > > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and > Meta-Wiki, > > I > > > am > > > > > > pleased > > > > > > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 > movement > > > > brand > > > > > > > > strategy > > > > > > > > > [1]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual > > > > > > contributors and > > > > > > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reducing confusion > > > > > > > > > 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Protecting reputation > > > > > > > > > 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Supporting sister projects > > > > > > > > > 4. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Addressing (legal, governmental) risks > > > > > > > > > 5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Supporting movement growth > > > > > > > > > 6. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The process of change > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. > You > > > > will > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a > rough > > > > > > indication > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to > > each > > > > > theme. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that > > > > across > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > wide > > > > > > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common > > > (and a > > > > > > sign of > > > > > > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created > > > “polarity > > > > > > maps” > > > > > > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments > > > coexist > > > > in > > > > > > > > tension > > > > > > > > > with each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very > > > > thoughtful > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s > > > branding > > > > > > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” > for > > > > > > assessing > > > > > > > > > branding systems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > == Thanks == > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, > Wikipedia > > > > > > Education > > > > > > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold > > > > > discussions > > > > > > > > during > > > > > > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues > > Elena > > > > > > Lappen, > > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive > > > parts > > > > > of > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of > > > affiliates > > > > > > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and > offering > > > > your > > > > > > > > > perspectives and insights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > == Next steps and staying involved == > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and > > > general > > > > > > appetite > > > > > > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we > > believe > > > > that > > > > > > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance > for > > > > > > precisely > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have > > > > shared > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of > > > Trustees, > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > approved continuing these efforts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on > > > formal > > > > > > brand > > > > > > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will > > use > > > > > > > > “Wikipedia” > > > > > > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will > be > > > > OPT-IN > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > affiliates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a > > > group > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand > > during > > > > this > > > > > > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, > and > > we > > > > > > invite > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space > to > > > host > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid > > > > discussions > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If > you > > do > > > > not > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will > be > > > > > > happening > > > > > > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking > > > > comments > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all > important > > > > ideas > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will > be > > > > > shared > > > > > > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take > > > > > > approximately > > > > > > > > 6 > > > > > > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to > mailing > > > > lists, > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where > > you > > > > are > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the > > > power > > > > to > > > > > > > > decide > > > > > > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zack > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading- > > > with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [2] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_ > > > brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and > > > click > > > > > the > > > > > > gray > > > > > > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will > be > > > able > > > > > to > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the > > Discuss > > > > > Space > > > > > > > > main > > > > > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [4] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_ > > > brands/2030_research_and_planning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zack McCune (he/him) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Director of Brand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > and > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > > 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