Pe vineri, 6 septembrie 2019, Adrian Raddatz <ajradd...@gmail.com> a scris:

> Yet another potentially good idea from the Foundation killed by the usual
> atrocious style of stakeholder management. No benefits framed for the
> community,



>
> no indication that this change is coming from the bottom up,


Huh? Have you seriously never seen people asking the difference between
Wikipedia and Wikimedia or wiki(m|p) edians complaining about how hard it
is to explain that difference?

This change is very much a bottom up one, even if it is pushed by the WMF
using corporate procedures rather than by the community using an RfC.



> no
> assurance that this change happens or not based on the results of the
> consultation.


I would say that it was pretty clear the change will happen :)

Strainu

>
> You can't figure out the benefits to the community - your key stakeholder
> group - entirely as part of the consultation. You need to frame the
> consultation as figuring out how to achieve pre-identified benefits to your
> stakeholders in the optimal way. You should also try to get buy-in from key
> community groups *before* you start consulting, and use them as part of the
> consultation, so it stops being Foundation vs. the community and turns into
> the Foundation collaboratively supporting community-led ideas.
>
> It pains me to see this being done poorly, time and time again.
>
> Adrian Raddatz
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 3:28 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> paulospern...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > After the last disastrous WMF intervention in Wikipedia - Framgate - I
> > believe the timing is just perfect for the WMF to go forward with this
> fit
> > of creativity of branding themselves as the "Wikipedia Foundation".
> >
> > It's one after another, and never stops.
> >
> > Best,
> > Paulo
> >
> > Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia sexta, 6/09/2019
> à(s)
> > 18:25:
> >
> > > I agree with Fae. I strongly oppose the proposal, and I somehow used to
> > > assume that our opinion would be asked in a structured way.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Yaroslav
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:03 PM Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from all
> > > > the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond with
> > > > a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?
> > > >
> > > > Something along the lines of:
> > > > "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and they
> > > > recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word "Wikipedia"
> > > > and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons" to
> > > > ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the WMF.
> > > > Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"
> > > >
> > > > With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every discussion
> > > > on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether
> "There
> > > > is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
> > > > considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual. Rather
> > > > than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness that
> > > > comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without
> > > > firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and less
> > > > credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from embedded
> > > > bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
> > > > consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove the
> > > > spent money had impact and "value".
> > > >
> > > > P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration"
> when
> > > > communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate history
> > > > and gives the impression that you are quoting views from
> collaborators
> > > > rather than holding open collegial discussion.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Fae
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <
> > dranville-...@wikimedia.org
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with Pine.
> > > > > There is a majority of people who actually oppose the rebranding
> > > > > proposition.
> > > > > I don't quite understand why this is still going forward (except
> that
> > > it
> > > > is
> > > > > difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards - but
> it
> > is
> > > > > sometimes necessary).
> > > > > Have other options even been considered?
> > > > >
> > > > > -speaking in my own name here-
> > > > >
> > > > > Diane
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Zack,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for the report on Meta.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is
> > > > considerable
> > > > > > support for the brand proposal and general appetite to improve
> our
> > > > > > movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to omit
> is
> > > > that,
> > > > > > according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable
> > > opposition
> > > > to
> > > > > > the rebranding proposal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having
> > > > "considerable
> > > > > > support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what appears
> to
> > > be
> > > > > > considerable opposition?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta displays
> > that
> > > > > > measure community and affiliate support or opposition regarding
> the
> > > > > > rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and two
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was using
> > those
> > > > > > measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition
> regarding
> > > the
> > > > RfC,
> > > > > > I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as
> declined.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pine
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <zmcc...@wikimedia.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design
> > > > process for
> > > > > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group,
> or
> > > > watch
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> > > > affiliates,
> > > > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I
> am
> > > > pleased
> > > > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement
> > brand
> > > > > > strategy
> > > > > > > [1].
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> > > > contributors and
> > > > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    1.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    Reducing confusion
> > > > > > >    2.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    Protecting reputation
> > > > > > >    3.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    Supporting sister projects
> > > > > > >    4.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > > > > >    5.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    Supporting movement growth
> > > > > > >    6.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    The process of change
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You
> > will
> > > > see
> > > > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
> > > > indication
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to each
> > > theme.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that
> > across
> > > > our
> > > > > > wide
> > > > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common
> (and a
> > > > sign of
> > > > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created
> “polarity
> > > > maps”
> > > > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments
> coexist
> > in
> > > > > > tension
> > > > > > > with each other.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very
> > thoughtful
> > > > and
> > > > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s
> branding
> > > > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
> > > > assessing
> > > > > > > branding systems.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > == Thanks ==
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia
> > > > Education
> > > > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> > > discussions
> > > > > > during
> > > > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena
> > > > Lappen,
> > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive
> parts
> > > of
> > > > this
> > > > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of
> affiliates
> > > > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering
> > your
> > > > > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and
> general
> > > > appetite
> > > > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe
> > that
> > > > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for
> > > > precisely
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have
> > shared
> > > > these
> > > > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of
> Trustees,
> > > who
> > > > > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on
> formal
> > > > brand
> > > > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> > > > > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be
> > OPT-IN
> > > > for
> > > > > > > affiliates.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a
> group
> > > of
> > > > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during
> > this
> > > > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we
> > > > invite
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to
> host
> > > > this
> > > > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> > discussions
> > > > and
> > > > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do
> > not
> > > > want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be
> > > > happening
> > > > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking
> > comments
> > > > left
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important
> > ideas
> > > > and
> > > > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be
> > > shared
> > > > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > > > approximately
> > > > > > 6
> > > > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing
> > lists,
> > > > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you
> > are
> > > > most
> > > > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the
> power
> > to
> > > > > > decide
> > > > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  Zack
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-
> with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [2]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and
> click
> > > the
> > > > gray
> > > > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be
> able
> > > to
> > > > see
> > > > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss
> > > Space
> > > > > > main
> > > > > > > page.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [4]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Director of Brand
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> > > >
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