Hey, "*1) if a group has more active cores, maybe they should be more broadly represented in Berlin. Maybe these constructs shouldn't be necessary.*" -> I can agree with that point, yes; "*2) No matter how much some care about the ASBS, I doubt that this will be a driving force to get more bureaucracy (because that is the cost of setting up a UG).*" - I respect your opinion, but IMO getting to have increased, or even decisive power on the election of 2 of the 5 members (which in turn appoint and confirm the other 5) of the board of one of the biggest players and stakeholders of modern days, as the Wikimedia Foundation has been growing into progressively, is indeed a powerful driven force. Furthermore, as far as I know, bureaucratic requirements for UGs are really low, and in line with a department or cell would have to report to the mother organization. I'm not saying or even suggesting this was the driven force behind the formation of the SPUG, I certainly assume good faith. I'm saying that it may be a driven force for similar cases presented as local affiliates more or less explicitly under the umbrella of a national chapter to pop up. And this aspect can be potentially unfair, and even amount to abuse of the system, as a trick to gather more votes; *"3) funding for local activities is probably not really a consideration in the case of Russia, where foreign funding is (to put it mildly) 'complicated'.* I mentioned funding, not WMF funding necessarily. It's perfectly understandable that a locally registered association may have, in some contexts, more easy access to funds than a national one. I live in an autonomous region where it is very common, so I understand it may be indeed a legitimate reason to create and register a local affiliate. No idea if that is the case of Saint Petersburg, but if it is, it's a smart move.
Basically, I'm not criticizing this approval - I've no idea what is behind the group formation, though I assume the members have the best intentions, and it actually looks like a smart move. I'm just curious if this will become a trend, and how will it develop. Best, Paulo effe iets anders <effeietsand...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia sexta, 4/10/2019 à(s) 21:39: > Sure, if you want to see it through that lens I guess you could argue such. > However, just to put things in perspective: 1) if a group has more active > cores, maybe they should be more broadly represented in Berlin. Maybe these > constructs shouldn't be necessary. 2) No matter how much some care about > the ASBS, I doubt that this will be a driving force to get more bureaucracy > (because that is the cost of setting up a UG). 3) funding for local > activities is probably not really a consideration in the case of Russia, > where foreign funding is (to put it mildly) 'complicated'. > > Lets assume for the sake of the discussion that the group has legitimate > reasons to request affiliate status (although I have my assumptions, I'm > curious what tipped the scale). > > Lodewijk > > > On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 3:01 AM Paulo Santos Perneta < > paulospern...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > This is a very interesting strategy for any well developed affiliate. It > > allows : > > > > * decentralization, and stronger local groups, now as full fledged > > affiliates > > * more seats in Berlin and other conferences > > * more votes in the ASBS election > > * less financial burden over the national chapter, and additional funding > > for local activities. > > > > Huge and well established chapters like WMDE could easily set up dozens > of > > local affiliates, with great advantage. > > > > Paulo > > > > > > > > A sexta, 4 de out de 2019, 08:04, Philip Kopetzky < > > philip.kopet...@gmail.com> > > escreveu: > > > > > I can only reiterate what Lodewijk said - I'm trying to find the > approach > > > and goals in the decision to acknowledge user groups that seem to be an > > > integral part (or from an outside perspective, should be) of the > national > > > chapter. In the past this has been an indicator of personal conflicts > > > within a chapter or user group and AffCom perpetuating these conflicts > by > > > setting up competing affiliates (the situation in Albania being a > recent > > > example of this). > > > > > > Best, > > > Philip > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 at 06:33, effe iets anders < > effeietsand...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I would like to note that one of the contacts of this user group is > > > > Vladimir Medeyko, the director of Wikimedia Russia. I'm assuming > > > > comfortably that this application happened in full coordination with > > > > Wikimedia Russia. > > > > > > > > The question about process is still an interesting one though (what > is > > > > nowadays the approach of Affcom, and what are the considerations) > when > > a > > > > user group application comes in from a geographic area with an active > > > > affiliate at a 'higher level' (in this case, a country). You could > > > continue > > > > the comparison with what happens if an application would come in from > > > South > > > > of Nevsky (a neighborhood in St. Petersburg). > > > > > > > > Lodewijk > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 3:29 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < > > > > paulospern...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia NYC is a very different situation, there is not a > national > > > > > chapter in the US, so it's not a cell of anything. > > > > > Just to clarify: Saint Petersburg eventually could not be a cell, > but > > > the > > > > > way it is presented (to promote Wikimedia RU activities in SP, with > > > same > > > > > Wikimedia RU people), it's basically a cell. > > > > > > > > > > Paulo > > > > > > > > > > Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrak...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia quinta, > > > > 3/10/2019 > > > > > à(s) 23:06: > > > > > > > > > > > What about Wikimedia NYC? (I'm not sure of its organizational > > > status) > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 6:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < > > > > > > paulospern...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I > don't > > > > > believe > > > > > > > it compares with a city UG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paulo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> escreveu no dia > quinta, > > > > > > 3/10/2019 > > > > > > > à(s) 22:53: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta > > > > > > > > <paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if > apparently > > > it's > > > > > > > > basically > > > > > > > > > a cell of Wikimedia Russia? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a curious precedent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia > > > > Community > > > 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