[Winona Online Democracy] Bryon, Roy and others
Thank you both for providing the good base of information in each of your posts. Bryon, I think most if not all of us would agree that there are a few CEO's whose cost clearly does not represent a good value for the corporations they represent. Until Boards of Directors become responsible to their stockholders and not to the CEO little if anything will change and more and more disclosure information will help stockholders stop some of the games. No individual, in my opinion, is worth or worthy of any compensation for their work, not ownership, beyond 40 percent of the people they directly supervise. In the case of very large corporations which will involve many layers of employees that will by the organizational tree generate more for those at the top. But the abuses of boards for many very large corporations to enable this to continue, not in the interest of good management but rather, the politics of retaining a good old boy network. For most, CEO's and owners, the poor examples of the big boy's greed is not a model that we respect or want to copy. We have enough outside and foreign competition to fight without having to deal with internal rapist of our corporate assets. Roy's, information, in my opinion, supports the fact that in our community and state the compensation levels in both the private and public sectors are relatively close. To compare entry level plant labor or retail clerks to teachers is absurd and about a valid as to compare the Manager of a small retail store with the CEO of K-Mart or Target. Individual values and worth lie in the eye of the beholder. The fun starts when you compare Master Electricians and Plumbers with those holding Master's degrees! Paul Double -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf of Roy Nasstrom Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:23 PM Some data may be helpful in comparing teachers' and school administrators' salaries. According to the latest survey of the Department of Labor, in May 2004, elementary and secondary school administrators in the United States had a median annual earnings of $74,190.A survey by the Educational Research Service, indicated higher salaries. According to the ERS, salaries in the 2004-2005 school year were as follows: Senior high principals $82,225; jr. high/middle school principals $78,160; elementary school principals, $74,062. Respective salaries for assistant principals were $68,945, $66,319, and $63,398. Given the responsibilities these administrators have, the salaries appear low, but they reflect local values and fiscal capacity. According to the latest survey of the American Federation of Teachers (whose data is used by the U. S. Department of Labor), the median salary of public school teachers in the United States in 2003-2004 was $45,597. This figure excluded income for extra duties. Local school superintendents' salaries vary widely, but outside a handful of major cities, few top administrators receive four times the salary of teachers. Superintendents do tend to be the most highly paid of all local (and a vast majority of state) officials, but the difference between their salaries and those of their employees is not comparable to the sometimes astronomical differences in private business. Roy Nasstrom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leslie Hittner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Kathy Seifert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Paul Double" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Online Democracy" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:15 PM Subject: Re: [Winona] School Administrators/NPR bias > [Winona Online Democracy] > > I think Bryon is talking about dollars in the private sector. He states at > the end of his post that school administrators in Minnesota (not in > charter > schools, however) are making about 4 to 1 over the average teacher salary. > That's probably correct. His statements about private sector top > administrator salary compared to the "worker bee" pay is pretty accurate > too. > > -Leslie Hittner > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kathy Seifert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Paul Double" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Online Democracy" > <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 7:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Winona] School Administrators/NPR bias > > >> [Winona Online Democracy] >> >> I think he was speaking of the number of administrators (principals) for >> each teacher within the district--we are talking about people, not >> dollars >> :)!! That's the heart of the problem--if it's only about the bottom line >> dollar and not about the quality of the product, we'll never be talking >> about the same thing. I'm sure we can operate a school district with >> less >> and less over the years, but at what point does it become a school > district >> that produces little of value and why in the world would that be our >> goal? >> >> Kathy Seifert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Paul Double" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Online Democracy" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 4:56 PM >> Subject: FW: [Winona] School Administrators/NPR bias >> >> >> [Winona Online Democracy] >> >> Bryon >> >> Are we missing something from your post? >> >> 460 to 1 or in real dollars Administrators are making $13.8 million > dollars >> if the teacher is paid $30,000 or even $1.38 million using 46 to 1? >> >> Even your ratio of 4 to 1 I find hard to believe. Maybe the Minneapolis > or >> St. Paul school district superintendents in the Twin Cities are pulling >> those ratios but not in Greater Minnesota. >> >> Paul Double >> >> >> Behalf Of Bothuns >> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 4:25 PM >> >> [Winona Online Democracy] >> >> I'm sorry, but when I read somewhere that the solution to our education >> problems is simply to cut spending, on anything, I just have to laugh, >> and >> then cry. Right now countries like Colombia, Malaysia and Hungry already >> outspend the US on Education as a percentage of GDP. No disrespect >> intended, but should we assume that it is OK to come in behind those >> countries and still claim to be the leaders of the free world? >> >> When the average Principal to Teacher pay ratio hits 460 to 1, as it is >> in >> the private sector, or perhaps just 46 to 1, like it was in the US >> private >> sector just 20 years ago, then I'll get interested in cutting > administrative >> >> expenditures. Right now it stands at about 4 to 1 in Minnesota which >> clearly implies that it needs to go up not down. >> >> Bryon Bothun >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy >> All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. >> No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. >> To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit >> http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona >> Any problems or suggestions can be directed to >> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact > page >> at >> http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org >> _______________________________________________ >> This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy >> All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. >> No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. >> To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit >> http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona >> Any problems or suggestions can be directed to >> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact > page at >> http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy > All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. > No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. > To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit > http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona > Any problems or suggestions can be directed to > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact > page at > http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org > _______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org _______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org
