[Winona Online Democracy]
"I can find many examples of educational systems blowing up worse than
Enron and WorldCom. I do not think any business as failed as badly as
some educational systems have."
Other than districts that have consolidated or combined, name a single
district that has failed to the point that it no longer exists, no longer
serves any students on any level. I do not believe that even one such
school district exists. No student in this country is prevented from
getting san education by the absence of a local district to provide it.
Also, believe there are significantly more than 7000 school districts.
BRyon
----- Original Message -----
From: "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Winona Online Democracy" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Winona] School Administrators/NPR bias
[Winona Online Democracy]
On Jan 2, 2006, at 12:45, Bothuns wrote:
"> I would add to Paul's comments the following: When shareholders begin
to hold boards responsible for bad decisions by declining to rubber
stamp all proposals and elections, boards may then become cognizant of
whom they represent."
This actually leads me to the underlying motivation of my post. For too
long we have been told that our education system is failing and that it
must be recast in the mold of our business model. I believe this is
exactly the opposite of what needs to happen. A strong and vibrant
middle class has been the backbone of the US economy and the bedrock of
that middle class has been public education. The ethics of business just
don't work that well in the classroom (and I would argue that our current
business ethic doesn't even work that well for business). I don't think
ANY public school has ever failed as miserably as Enron did and we simply
cannot afford to allow our schools to fail. If anything our businesses
model needs change to try and replicate the almost unprecedented success
of our public education system from the end of WW II until the very
recent past. It is a system that was once the envy of the developed
world. I don't think it is simply coincidence that our attempts to apply
business practices in education have fairly nearly coincided with the
deterioration of our public schools. The dynamics of a free market just
aren't appropriate for a system that is as diverse, challenging , long
term, and essential as our system of education.
What is wrong with creating a business model in an educational setting?
"A description of the operations of a business including the components of
the business, the functions of the business, and the revenues and expenses
that the business generates."
"Business Model", http://www.investorwords.com/629/business_model.html
In an educational environment there are components such as counseling,
special education, band, history, chemistry, and et cetera. They have a
common goal to work together for the welfare of the student; this is the
function. There are also expenses such as supplies and sources of income
such as the school lunch program. Perhaps there is attached meaning to
your comments that I cannot speak without more knowledge of your
definition.
--
What do you mean that the opposite of a business model needs to occur?
Perhaps the intention is to say that business leaders are not the best
sources for information about the direction of the educational system. I
can agree with that to a limited extent. During the Clinton Administration
pages of notebooks were filled with commentary decrying that however,
business leaders also should not be excluded.
--
There are more than seven thousand public companies and few declare
bankruptcy yearly. Some of these are the product of bad decisions; others
are the product of market pressures. Yet, because of a few high profile
bankruptcies we equate that to the educational system blowing up with a
business plan? The criminal actions of a few are equated to the entire
sector or an idea being insidious yet when compared with the majority
rather than the minority, the concept of a bad ethic is hard to see. The
squeaky wheel gets the grease and attention, however, most wheels are
greased well before the squeak and attention.
--
I can find many examples of educational systems blowing up worse than
Enron and WorldCom. I do not think any business as failed as badly as some
educational systems have. These systems have failed so badly the results
are mapped by the US Census. To equate business ethics as bad and the
source of problems ignores the problems that other education systems have.
Most previously segregated educational systems arguably blew up and the
repercussions continue to effect the populations of these areas, although
theoretically with a diminishing effect yearly.
The following link is a picture of the Pont du Gard aqueduct, a Roman
masterpiece.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pont_du_gard.jpg
The impairment of segregated school systems and unjust laws worked to harm
individuals similar to playing a game of Jenga with the Pont du Gard
Aqueduct. Perhaps you can abbreviate in a few cases; this will however
increase the pressure on another area to perform. To apply a Vygotskyian
spin to this metaphor and extend it, the top "shelf" of the aqueduct
represents the pupil, the little arches represent the friends and peers of
the pupil, the middle arches represent the educators, and the bottom
arches represent the family. Since the Jenga game was multi-generational,
each layer is affected, one now removes blocks from each successive arch
and quickly finds that the structure can no longer do its required task.
With the missing blocks, the scaffold can no longer accomplish the goal of
providing sufficient support for the next challenge.
I'm just not willing to trust the future of my children to some "unseen
hand".
IMHO
Bryon Bothun
The unseen hand is the involvement that parents and the child place into
the system. People get as much out of a classroom as they are willing to
interact with it.
********************************************
David Dittmann
From: "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Online Democracy" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Winona] School Administrators/NPR bias
On Jan 2, 2006, at 10:49, Paul Double wrote:
[snip]
Bryon, I think most if not all of us would agree that there are a few
CEO's
whose cost clearly does not represent a good value for the corporations
they
represent. Until Boards of Directors become responsible to their
stockholders and not to the CEO little if anything will change and more
and
more disclosure information will help stockholders stop some of the
games.
No individual, in my opinion, is worth or worthy of any compensation
for
their work, not ownership, beyond 40 percent of the people they
directly
supervise. In the case of very large corporations which will involve
many
layers of employees that will by the organizational tree generate more
for
those at the top. But the abuses of boards for many very large
corporations
to enable this to continue, not in the interest of good management but
rather, the politics of retaining a good old boy network.
For most, CEO's and owners, the poor examples of the big boy's greed is
not
a model that we respect or want to copy. We have enough outside and
foreign
competition to fight without having to deal with internal rapist of our
corporate assets.
[snip]
I would add to Paul's comments the following: When shareholders begin to
hold boards responsible for bad decisions by declining to rubber stamp
all proposals and elections, boards may then become cognizant of whom
they represent.
Currently there are few examples of boards being challenged, credibly.
The current high-profile example of a board being challenged involves
Carl Icahn and his idiotic attempt to protect AOL-Time Warner's
shareholder value. Where was Carl Icahn when AOL's Steve Case was
ripping off Time Warner shareholders? The point remains that shareholder
activism needs and boards of directors need improvement.
********************************************
David Dittmann
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