I agree.   There are times when a big controller code upgrade is consuming 
(like going to 8.x with Aruba), but it is normally configuration tweaks you 
would likely do regardless of if the controllers are on-prem or cloud.  We have 
nearly 10,000 APs.

Ryan Turner
Senior Manager of Networking, ITS
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
+1 919 274 7926 Mobile
+1 919 445 0113 Office

On May 21, 2018, at 11:13 AM, Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>> wrote:


But in the specific case of cloud vs on-prem wireless, what is the case to save 
1 FTE? I would contend the vast majority of day-to-day work in wireless isn't 
affected by the location of the controller.

Thomas Carter​



________________________________
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Jeffrey D. Sessler 
<j...@scrippscollege.edu<mailto:j...@scrippscollege.edu>>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 12:30 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Options

One of the difficulties in comparing TCO is around staffing. Both estimating 
how much time staff really spend on the current solution, but also taking into 
account base salary with benefits. At many colleges, benefits can add another 
30%+ to the cost of a person. As such, the elimination (or reallocation) of one 
FTE has a huge impact on on-premise vs cloud comparisons. That single FTE could 
be $100K (salary + benefits) per year, saving (or reallocating) $700K over 
those 7 years.

In a lot of our cloud shift, those FTE’s have been re-allocated into more 
important roles such as security.

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Friday, May 18, 2018 at 8:43 AM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Options

For cloud to really take over, the costs need to drop. We just went through a 
similar thing and are of a similar size (~300 APs), and the cloud on-going OpEx 
costs dropped them out of the race. The simplicity of costs budgeting is nice, 
but 7 year TCO is no contest.

Where they currently seem to be the best option is in the >25 to <100 AP market 
(<25 easily fits into Aruba Instant, Ruckus Unleashed, etc) or the small 
business vendor-managed market.

Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 10:07 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Options

Chuck has the right idea here. Our respective college strategic missions don’t 
mention running servers or wireless controllers as strategic to the mission of 
the college. Cloud/SaaS solutions free up folks from the mundane tasks, 
allowing them to focus on those higher-up technology layers that can benefit 
the strategic mission. I think it’s easy today to see the benefits of moving 
on-premise email systems to GAFE or O365, but that comfort level isn’t there 
yet with some other systems such a Wireless.

From a support standpoint, a vendor like Meraki has global visibility of how 
their product is operating, meaning they can correlate/see/react to issues 
faster including patching. For the controller-based solutions, there is the 
isolation factor, capability of the customer to gather support info, and the 
vendor not knowing if other customers are having the issue.

I suspect both options will be with us for years to come, but as more and more 
of our respective data centers move to the cloud, I predict the wireless cloud 
services will become more popular.

Jeff
From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of "Enfield III, Charles Albert" 
<cae...@psu.edu<mailto:cae...@psu.edu>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 1:38 PM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Options

I don’t want to put words in John’s mouth, but operating controllers requires 
time and effort beyond what’s required to manage configurations.  Scaling, 
security, software upgrades, etc., all require resources but contribute nothing 
to the user experience.  For us the benefits of hosting our own controllers is 
worth it, but I understand that isn’t true for everybody.  I’m not even sure it 
will always be true for us.  When the benefits of controllers as traffic 
aggregators can be easily replaced with SD fabrics, I’ll probably want cloud 
controllers too.  The details will matter, but it’s where I think we’re going.

Chuck Enfield
Manager, Wireless Engineering
Enterprise Networking & Communication Services
The Pennsylvania State University
119L, USB2, UP, PA 16802
ph: 814.863.8715
fx: 814.865.3988

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of Peter P Morrissey
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:30 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Options

Same here. I was also curious as to why it would be limited to cloud based 
solutions. I would drill down a layer into the perceived benefits of cloud 
based, and define it that way. Easier management requiring less staff time and 
thus lower TCO and more ability to accomplish other activities? Etc. Maybe.

One of the disadvantages of cloud based solutions besides losing some control 
and visibility is the ongoing costs. We love Meraki as much as anyone, but the 
annual recurring licensing costs are rather steep and should be carefully 
weighed against the benefits.

Pete Morrissey

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jake Snyder
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 2:26 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Options

I’m curious about the requirement that controllers be “cloud based” and what 
business requirement that maps to.

Trying to understand what a cloud based controller give your business that an 
on-premises controller does not.  How that translates to better experience, 
happier students or faster connectivity.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 17, 2018, at 12:13 PM, Norton, Thomas (Network Operations) 
<tnort...@liberty.edu<mailto:tnort...@liberty.edu>> wrote:
I  highly recommend looking at Aruba as well.

T.J. Norton
Wireless Network Architect
Network Operations

Office: (434) 592-6552

<image001.jpg>

Liberty University  |  Training Champions for Christ since 1971

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Trenton Hurt
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 2:11 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Options

https://www.mist.com/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mist.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Ctnorton7%40liberty.edu%7Cc75bdb0477514218a00c08d5bc21c019%7Cbaf8218eb3024465a9934a39c97251b2%7C0%7C0%7C636621775498942781&sdata=LxLmDpwl3h17su4HEiv9evWnHBODxMCN0tmzXxYir0w%3D&reserved=0>

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 2:10 PM John Rodkey 
<rod...@westmont.edu<mailto:rod...@westmont.edu>> wrote:
Our college - about 40 buildings, 1200 students, 3500 wireless clients per day, 
currently 310 WAPs - is considering a major upgrade in WAPs, replacing a number 
that are 9 years old and no longer supported.

We could replace with the latest model of our existing vendor, but want to 
consider all the feasible alternatives.  We have a hard requirement that the 
controller be cloud-based, the system deal well with Mac clients, understand 
VLANs and an enterprise quality network, and have a rich set of configuration, 
logging, monitoring, and troubleshooting tools for dealing both with clients 
and access points. Responsive support is also required, and unsurprisingly  
total system cost is a significant issue.

3 vendors come to mind:  Meraki, Ubiquiti, and Aerohive.

Questions:
 1) do other vendors come to mind that play well in this space?
 2) what are your positive experiences with any of the above?
 3) what are your negative experiences?
 4) have you recently gone through this analysis, and if so, what were your 
conclusions?
 5) what issues have you experienced with PoE capacity requirements with these 
devices?

John Rodkey
Director of Servers and Networks
Westmont College
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