I think I learned in high school business law class that payment of a bill 
constitutes agreement with a contract.


-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--------------------------------------------------
From: "RickG" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 9:47 PM
To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Electronic Signatures

> Right on TOS and AUP but not the contract. If I understand contractual
> agreements correctly, all terms must be clear to both parties. So,
> just cause I pay a bill doesnt mean I understand my full obligations
> such as length of terms, etc. I suspect that presenting the actual
> contract electronically when the customer signs up provides full
> disclosure but I'd love to hear from anyone that is using it now an
> dif their lawyer blessed the proceedure.
> -RickG
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:57 PM, D. Ryan Spott<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I think in most states paying the bill obligates you to the terms of
>> service/contract.
>>
>> ryan
>>
>> Charles Wyble wrote:
>>> Ah. Gotcha.
>>>
>>> Thanks for clarifying.
>>>
>>> RickG wrote:
>>>
>>>> Having an AUP is fine but it doesnt spell out the terms of a specific
>>>> obligation between you & the end user. The big carriers obligate you
>>>> to two year contracts when you agree online so I'm assuming we can do
>>>> the same.
>>>> -RickG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Charles Wyble<[email protected]> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The big carriers don't require a signature on a contract. They also
>>>>> don't do (free/near free) installs either. I don't know if there is a
>>>>> signed contract if you pay for an install.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes I realize this is a very important differentiator that we can
>>>>> provide, however I don't feel a signed contract is necessary. An AUP 
>>>>> is
>>>>> an excellent idea as a general rule, however if they are transiting 
>>>>> bits
>>>>> on your network, you have the right and obligation to defend that
>>>>> network. If you don't, you risk other operators dropping traffic from
>>>>> your IP rnage /AS.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your free to enforce your AUP with impunity. Failure to do so is the
>>>>> sole reason that "bits of evil" reach our border routers. A few simple
>>>>> route filters, and spam/botnets would be stopped. Subscribe to the 
>>>>> Don't
>>>>> Route Or Peer List from Spamhaus
>>>>> (http://www.spamhaus.org/drop/index.lasso), and monitor outbound 
>>>>> traffic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *sighs*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Martha Huizenga wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly, we send the contract with the install and then get it back 
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> the install is done. Works fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason Hensley wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow. Seems like a waste of time and resources. If I mailed contracts 
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> that here I'd lose half my install opportunities because they would 
>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>> send the contract back. Send a contract with the installer, get them 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> sign it before they install, give one copy to customer, bring one 
>>>>>>> back, done
>>>>>>> deal. If nothing else, get an electronic as an initial confirmation, 
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> get an actual signature at install.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Scott Reed
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:42 AM
>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Electronic Signatures
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We currently use a two-year contract for customers. Right now we 
>>>>>>> gather
>>>>>>> the information, generate a contract, USMail it to the customer and 
>>>>>>> wait
>>>>>>> for them to USMail it back after they sign it before we schedule an
>>>>>>> installation. We would like to reduce the time from initial contact 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> installation. One option we are looking at is "electronic signature" 
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the contract. We have done some research into doing this, but 
>>>>>>> thought it
>>>>>>> would be good to get some other input.
>>>>>>> If you do electronic signatures, how do you do it?
>>>>>>> If you use a third party to "certify" the signatures, who do you 
>>>>>>> use?
>>>>>>> What is good about them? What is not so good?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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