Thanks.... PS. Isn't Hydrogen Fual Cell the technology Spring just got like $X billion grant to pioneer?
Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curtis Maurand" <cmaur...@xyonet.com> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator > > Sorry, I should have posted this page. > > no moving parts. > > http://www.idatech.com/ > > > > Tom DeReggi wrote: >> Patrick, >> >> All excellent points, and reality checks. Thanks for the feedback! >> >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:58 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >> >> >> >>> I think you'll find that to get a propane/NG generator installed on a >>> commercial building rooftop, you'll be looking at $10k minimum using >>> even the cheapest Generac air-cooled units. You'll need a roofing >>> company to come out and modify the roof to provide a mounting surface >>> for the generator, that will probably be the biggest cost. Getting >>> management comfortable with modifying a $300k roof membrane could be an >>> issue as well. Then getting gas to the unit from the building's gas >>> supply will require a plumbing contractor, permits, inspections. Then >>> the electrical hookup- more permits and inspections and a licensed EC. >>> >>> I just got a quote for qty 8 110AH 12v AGM batteries for a new site: >>> $1500 including shipping. >>> >>> A note on the Generac air-cooled generators. They break. All generators >>> break. The key is routine testing and PM. The generac air-cooled models >>> don't have any provision for automatic alarm reporting. So when a >>> battery dies or gas valve sticks or spark plug fouls or whatever, you >>> won't know about it until a manual site inspection or the power goes >>> out. The better generators (and the Generac liquid cooled models) have >>> contact closures or RS232 interfaces to report these conditions to your >>> site monitoring system, in turn notifying you back at the NOC. >>> >>> >>> Patrick Shoemaker >>> Vector Data Systems LLC >>> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com >>> office: (301) 358-1690 x36 >>> http://www.vectordatasystems.com >>> >>> >>> Tom DeReggi wrote: >>> >>>> We also use the triplite APS inverters with good quality Gel cell. >>>> Actually, >>>> we got a good 15 years out of the existing C&D batteries, because we >>>> inherited them from Teligent days :-) >>>> But new, qty 4- 12V 150AH batteries in series for about 3500watt and >>>> decent >>>> run-time is $1400. + $800 for replacement inverters. (The Triplites >>>> worked >>>> really well, but about half of them died by the end of eight years. We >>>> matched good inverters with good pre-existing batteries and vice >>>> versa.) >>>> So >>>> our thought was.... Why not buy a $2000 generator for the run-time and >>>> load, >>>> and then several smaller UPSes for infront to cover the surges, power >>>> conditioning, and monitoring? Ones that keep running even when >>>> batteries >>>> short out. Part of the reason we are investigating is that we now have >>>> duplicate need of devices to power. Some are AC devices like PC >>>> routers. >>>> Some are 20-24VDC w/AC adapters. Some are new licensed gear running on >>>> 48V. >>>> Cost is increased having long battery run time on both seperate AC and >>>> DC >>>> backup power subsystems. And how do we plan for load growth? How many >>>> new >>>> radios installed will be AC or DC? Unlicensed versus Licensed? We >>>> really >>>> dont know in advance. There is a lot of power waste going from AC to >>>> DC >>>> to >>>> AC to DC. >>>> >>>> The thought was... If long run time was accomplished by the propaine >>>> generator, both DC and AC battery subsystems could be installed with >>>> lower >>>> cost lower run-time batteries. We'd still need to account for max >>>> watts >>>> growth for each subsystem, but we could way reduce AH requirements for >>>> both >>>> subsystems. >>>> >>>> Or am I making this to complicated, and better just sticking with >>>> batteries >>>> :-) >>>> >>>> Chris Erikson's idea on solar panels sounded interesting. Although, I >>>> bet >>>> my >>>> ruthless roof rights people will try to charge me a monthly colo fee >>>> for >>>> them :-( >>>> I wonder if I can make the solar panels look like rain/weather shields >>>> :-) >>>> >>>> Tom DeReggi >>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "jp" <j...@saucer.midcoast.com> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:11 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> The tripplite APS is what we use for this. Small generators are a >>>>> pain. >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 02:57:23PM -0430, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> You might want something like an inverter (Xantrex for example) which >>>>>> includes a DC to AC inverter, battery charger, and automatic transfer >>>>>> switch. Add the batteries and you're done. >>>>>> >>>>>> Greg >>>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 2, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning toward a >>>>>>> UPS. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost less >>>>>>> and be far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the >>>>>>> batteries @ 24VDC. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks again >>>>>>> Jerry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>>> On Behalf Of Gary Garrett >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM >>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Small generators do not auto start very reliably. >>>>>>> When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can overheat >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas engines, >>>>>>> propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, diesel can >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to >>>>>>> changing >>>>>>> conditions. >>>>>>> Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 phase. >>>>>>> (1955 >>>>>>> Model) >>>>>>> The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times. >>>>>>> Everything is >>>>>>> adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage from >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. Only >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator is not >>>>>>> starting and get it fixed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jerry Richardson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup but it >>>>>>>> does not start reliably. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only need >>>>>>>> to power a CMMmicro - ~100watts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>> Jerry Richardson >>>>>>>> airCloud Communications >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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