Something like that.  These guys have one that runs for 90 hours is 250 
watts 12 or 24 VDC and uses a methanol and water mix.  methane fuel 
cells don't use platinum and are, therefore, less expensive.  Its 
configurable with an RS-232 port.  It can be used as a battery charger 
as well so that if your system has dropped to battery, it will recharge 
the battery after its charge has dropped to a configurable level.  Its 
pretty cool stuff.  I was looking to  backup power an entire data center 
with one of the larger ones a couple of years ago.  There is a european 
company called BAXI that makes fuel cells as well.   This one is perfect 
for the application requirements in the original email.  I don't recall 
them as being that expensive either.


http://www.idatech.com/Products-and-Services-iGen-System2.asp


--Curtis

Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Thanks....
>
> PS. Isn't Hydrogen Fual Cell the technology Spring just got like $X billion 
> grant to pioneer?
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Curtis Maurand" <[email protected]>
> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 3:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>
>
>   
>> Sorry, I should have posted this page.
>>
>> no moving parts.
>>
>> http://www.idatech.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>     
>>> Patrick,
>>>
>>> All excellent points, and reality checks. Thanks for the feedback!
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[email protected]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
>>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I think you'll find that to get a propane/NG generator installed on a
>>>> commercial building rooftop, you'll be looking at $10k minimum using
>>>> even the cheapest Generac air-cooled units. You'll need a roofing
>>>> company to come out and modify the roof to provide a mounting surface
>>>> for the generator, that will probably be the biggest cost. Getting
>>>> management comfortable with modifying a $300k roof membrane could be an
>>>> issue as well. Then getting gas to the unit from the building's gas
>>>> supply will require a plumbing contractor, permits, inspections. Then
>>>> the electrical hookup- more permits and inspections and a licensed EC.
>>>>
>>>> I just got a quote for qty 8 110AH 12v AGM batteries for a new site:
>>>> $1500 including shipping.
>>>>
>>>> A note on the Generac air-cooled generators. They break. All generators
>>>> break. The key is routine testing and PM. The generac air-cooled models
>>>> don't have any provision for automatic alarm reporting. So when a
>>>> battery dies or gas valve sticks or spark plug fouls or whatever, you
>>>> won't know about it until a manual site inspection or the power goes
>>>> out. The better generators (and the Generac liquid cooled models) have
>>>> contact closures or RS232 interfaces to report these conditions to your
>>>> site monitoring system, in turn notifying you back at the NOC.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Patrick Shoemaker
>>>> Vector Data Systems LLC
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
>>>> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> We also use the triplite APS inverters with good quality Gel cell.
>>>>> Actually,
>>>>> we got a good 15 years out of the existing C&D batteries, because we
>>>>> inherited them from Teligent days :-)
>>>>> But new, qty 4- 12V 150AH batteries in series for about 3500watt and
>>>>> decent
>>>>> run-time is $1400. + $800 for replacement inverters.  (The Triplites
>>>>> worked
>>>>> really well, but about half of them died by the end of eight years. We
>>>>> matched good inverters with good pre-existing batteries and vice 
>>>>> versa.)
>>>>> So
>>>>> our thought was.... Why not buy a $2000 generator for the run-time and
>>>>> load,
>>>>> and then several smaller UPSes for infront to cover the surges, power
>>>>> conditioning, and monitoring? Ones that keep running even when 
>>>>> batteries
>>>>> short out.  Part of the reason we are investigating is that we now have
>>>>> duplicate need of devices to power.  Some are AC devices like PC 
>>>>> routers.
>>>>> Some are 20-24VDC w/AC adapters. Some are new licensed gear running on
>>>>> 48V.
>>>>> Cost is increased having long battery run time on both seperate AC and 
>>>>> DC
>>>>> backup power subsystems. And how do we plan for load growth? How many 
>>>>> new
>>>>> radios installed will be AC or DC? Unlicensed versus Licensed? We 
>>>>> really
>>>>> dont know in advance.  There is a lot of power waste going from AC to 
>>>>> DC
>>>>> to
>>>>> AC to DC.
>>>>>
>>>>> The thought was... If long run time was accomplished by the propaine
>>>>> generator, both DC and AC battery subsystems could be installed with
>>>>> lower
>>>>> cost lower run-time batteries.  We'd still need to account for max 
>>>>> watts
>>>>> growth for each subsystem, but we could way reduce AH requirements for
>>>>> both
>>>>> subsystems.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or am I making this to complicated, and better just sticking with
>>>>> batteries
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Erikson's idea on solar panels sounded interesting. Although, I 
>>>>> bet
>>>>> my
>>>>> ruthless roof rights people will try to charge me a monthly colo fee 
>>>>> for
>>>>> them :-(
>>>>> I wonder if I can make the solar panels look like rain/weather shields
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom DeReggi
>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "jp" <[email protected]>
>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:11 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> The tripplite APS is what we use for this. Small generators are a 
>>>>>> pain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 02:57:23PM -0430, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> You might want something like an inverter (Xantrex for example) which
>>>>>>> includes a DC to AC inverter, battery charger, and automatic transfer
>>>>>>> switch. Add the batteries and you're done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>> That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning toward a
>>>>>>>> UPS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost less
>>>>>>>> and be far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the
>>>>>>>> batteries @ 24VDC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks again
>>>>>>>> Jerry
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Gary Garrett
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM
>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Small generators do not auto start very reliably.
>>>>>>>> When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can overheat
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas engines,
>>>>>>>> propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, diesel can
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to 
>>>>>>>> changing
>>>>>>>> conditions.
>>>>>>>> Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 phase.
>>>>>>>> (1955
>>>>>>>> Model)
>>>>>>>> The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times.
>>>>>>>> Everything is
>>>>>>>> adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage from 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. Only 
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator is not
>>>>>>>> starting and get it fixed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jerry Richardson wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup but it
>>>>>>>>> does not start reliably.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only need
>>>>>>>>> to power a CMMmicro - ~100watts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Jerry Richardson
>>>>>>>>> airCloud Communications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> /*
>>>>>> Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
>>>>>>    KB1IOJ        |   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting
>>>>>> http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Maine    http://www.midcoast.com/
>>>>>> */
>>>>>>
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