Something like that. These guys have one that runs for 90 hours is 250 watts 12 or 24 VDC and uses a methanol and water mix. methane fuel cells don't use platinum and are, therefore, less expensive. Its configurable with an RS-232 port. It can be used as a battery charger as well so that if your system has dropped to battery, it will recharge the battery after its charge has dropped to a configurable level. Its pretty cool stuff. I was looking to backup power an entire data center with one of the larger ones a couple of years ago. There is a european company called BAXI that makes fuel cells as well. This one is perfect for the application requirements in the original email. I don't recall them as being that expensive either.
http://www.idatech.com/Products-and-Services-iGen-System2.asp --Curtis Tom DeReggi wrote: > Thanks.... > > PS. Isn't Hydrogen Fual Cell the technology Spring just got like $X billion > grant to pioneer? > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Curtis Maurand" <[email protected]> > To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 3:14 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator > > > >> Sorry, I should have posted this page. >> >> no moving parts. >> >> http://www.idatech.com/ >> >> >> >> Tom DeReggi wrote: >> >>> Patrick, >>> >>> All excellent points, and reality checks. Thanks for the feedback! >>> >>> >>> Tom DeReggi >>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[email protected]> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:58 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> I think you'll find that to get a propane/NG generator installed on a >>>> commercial building rooftop, you'll be looking at $10k minimum using >>>> even the cheapest Generac air-cooled units. You'll need a roofing >>>> company to come out and modify the roof to provide a mounting surface >>>> for the generator, that will probably be the biggest cost. Getting >>>> management comfortable with modifying a $300k roof membrane could be an >>>> issue as well. Then getting gas to the unit from the building's gas >>>> supply will require a plumbing contractor, permits, inspections. Then >>>> the electrical hookup- more permits and inspections and a licensed EC. >>>> >>>> I just got a quote for qty 8 110AH 12v AGM batteries for a new site: >>>> $1500 including shipping. >>>> >>>> A note on the Generac air-cooled generators. They break. All generators >>>> break. The key is routine testing and PM. The generac air-cooled models >>>> don't have any provision for automatic alarm reporting. So when a >>>> battery dies or gas valve sticks or spark plug fouls or whatever, you >>>> won't know about it until a manual site inspection or the power goes >>>> out. The better generators (and the Generac liquid cooled models) have >>>> contact closures or RS232 interfaces to report these conditions to your >>>> site monitoring system, in turn notifying you back at the NOC. >>>> >>>> >>>> Patrick Shoemaker >>>> Vector Data Systems LLC >>>> [email protected] >>>> office: (301) 358-1690 x36 >>>> http://www.vectordatasystems.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom DeReggi wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> We also use the triplite APS inverters with good quality Gel cell. >>>>> Actually, >>>>> we got a good 15 years out of the existing C&D batteries, because we >>>>> inherited them from Teligent days :-) >>>>> But new, qty 4- 12V 150AH batteries in series for about 3500watt and >>>>> decent >>>>> run-time is $1400. + $800 for replacement inverters. (The Triplites >>>>> worked >>>>> really well, but about half of them died by the end of eight years. We >>>>> matched good inverters with good pre-existing batteries and vice >>>>> versa.) >>>>> So >>>>> our thought was.... Why not buy a $2000 generator for the run-time and >>>>> load, >>>>> and then several smaller UPSes for infront to cover the surges, power >>>>> conditioning, and monitoring? Ones that keep running even when >>>>> batteries >>>>> short out. Part of the reason we are investigating is that we now have >>>>> duplicate need of devices to power. Some are AC devices like PC >>>>> routers. >>>>> Some are 20-24VDC w/AC adapters. Some are new licensed gear running on >>>>> 48V. >>>>> Cost is increased having long battery run time on both seperate AC and >>>>> DC >>>>> backup power subsystems. And how do we plan for load growth? How many >>>>> new >>>>> radios installed will be AC or DC? Unlicensed versus Licensed? We >>>>> really >>>>> dont know in advance. There is a lot of power waste going from AC to >>>>> DC >>>>> to >>>>> AC to DC. >>>>> >>>>> The thought was... If long run time was accomplished by the propaine >>>>> generator, both DC and AC battery subsystems could be installed with >>>>> lower >>>>> cost lower run-time batteries. We'd still need to account for max >>>>> watts >>>>> growth for each subsystem, but we could way reduce AH requirements for >>>>> both >>>>> subsystems. >>>>> >>>>> Or am I making this to complicated, and better just sticking with >>>>> batteries >>>>> :-) >>>>> >>>>> Chris Erikson's idea on solar panels sounded interesting. Although, I >>>>> bet >>>>> my >>>>> ruthless roof rights people will try to charge me a monthly colo fee >>>>> for >>>>> them :-( >>>>> I wonder if I can make the solar panels look like rain/weather shields >>>>> :-) >>>>> >>>>> Tom DeReggi >>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "jp" <[email protected]> >>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:11 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> The tripplite APS is what we use for this. Small generators are a >>>>>> pain. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 02:57:23PM -0430, [email protected] wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> You might want something like an inverter (Xantrex for example) which >>>>>>> includes a DC to AC inverter, battery charger, and automatic transfer >>>>>>> switch. Add the batteries and you're done. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>> That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning toward a >>>>>>>> UPS. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost less >>>>>>>> and be far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the >>>>>>>> batteries @ 24VDC. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks again >>>>>>>> Jerry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Gary Garrett >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM >>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Small generators do not auto start very reliably. >>>>>>>> When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can overheat >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas engines, >>>>>>>> propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, diesel can >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to >>>>>>>> changing >>>>>>>> conditions. >>>>>>>> Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 phase. >>>>>>>> (1955 >>>>>>>> Model) >>>>>>>> The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times. >>>>>>>> Everything is >>>>>>>> adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage from >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. Only >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator is not >>>>>>>> starting and get it fixed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jerry Richardson wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup but it >>>>>>>>> does not start reliably. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only need >>>>>>>>> to power a CMMmicro - ~100watts. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Jerry Richardson >>>>>>>>> airCloud Communications >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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