I called one of the resellers, $5-10k DEPENDING ON CONFIGURATION AND FUEL. I think an extra 8D at $205 would be more reliable and biannual replacement would pencil better...But they are COOL, and very small. At least that 250w unit is. cp -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 8:11 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
What do those cost? Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com >-----Original Message----- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of Curtis Maurand >Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 8:08 AM >To: WISPA General List >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator > > >Something like that. These guys have one that runs for 90 hours is 250 >watts 12 or 24 VDC and uses a methanol and water mix. methane fuel >cells don't use platinum and are, therefore, less expensive. Its >configurable with an RS-232 port. It can be used as a battery charger >as well so that if your system has dropped to battery, it will recharge >the battery after its charge has dropped to a configurable level. Its >pretty cool stuff. I was looking to backup power an entire data center >with one of the larger ones a couple of years ago. There is a european >company called BAXI that makes fuel cells as well. This one is perfect >for the application requirements in the original email. I don't recall >them as being that expensive either. > > >http://www.idatech.com/Products-and-Services-iGen-System2.asp > > >--Curtis > >Tom DeReggi wrote: >> Thanks.... >> >> PS. Isn't Hydrogen Fual Cell the technology Spring just got like $X >billion >> grant to pioneer? >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Curtis Maurand" <cmaur...@xyonet.com> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 3:14 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >> >> >> >>> Sorry, I should have posted this page. >>> >>> no moving parts. >>> >>> http://www.idatech.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Tom DeReggi wrote: >>> >>>> Patrick, >>>> >>>> All excellent points, and reality checks. Thanks for the feedback! >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom DeReggi >>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:58 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think you'll find that to get a propane/NG generator installed on >a >>>>> commercial building rooftop, you'll be looking at $10k minimum >using >>>>> even the cheapest Generac air-cooled units. You'll need a roofing >>>>> company to come out and modify the roof to provide a mounting >surface >>>>> for the generator, that will probably be the biggest cost. Getting >>>>> management comfortable with modifying a $300k roof membrane could >be an >>>>> issue as well. Then getting gas to the unit from the building's gas >>>>> supply will require a plumbing contractor, permits, inspections. >Then >>>>> the electrical hookup- more permits and inspections and a licensed >EC. >>>>> >>>>> I just got a quote for qty 8 110AH 12v AGM batteries for a new >site: >>>>> $1500 including shipping. >>>>> >>>>> A note on the Generac air-cooled generators. They break. All >generators >>>>> break. The key is routine testing and PM. The generac air-cooled >models >>>>> don't have any provision for automatic alarm reporting. So when a >>>>> battery dies or gas valve sticks or spark plug fouls or whatever, >you >>>>> won't know about it until a manual site inspection or the power >goes >>>>> out. The better generators (and the Generac liquid cooled models) >have >>>>> contact closures or RS232 interfaces to report these conditions to >your >>>>> site monitoring system, in turn notifying you back at the NOC. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Patrick Shoemaker >>>>> Vector Data Systems LLC >>>>> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com >>>>> office: (301) 358-1690 x36 >>>>> http://www.vectordatasystems.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tom DeReggi wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> We also use the triplite APS inverters with good quality Gel cell. >>>>>> Actually, >>>>>> we got a good 15 years out of the existing C&D batteries, because >we >>>>>> inherited them from Teligent days :-) >>>>>> But new, qty 4- 12V 150AH batteries in series for about 3500watt >and >>>>>> decent >>>>>> run-time is $1400. + $800 for replacement inverters. (The >Triplites >>>>>> worked >>>>>> really well, but about half of them died by the end of eight >years. We >>>>>> matched good inverters with good pre-existing batteries and vice >>>>>> versa.) >>>>>> So >>>>>> our thought was.... Why not buy a $2000 generator for the run-time >and >>>>>> load, >>>>>> and then several smaller UPSes for infront to cover the surges, >power >>>>>> conditioning, and monitoring? Ones that keep running even when >>>>>> batteries >>>>>> short out. Part of the reason we are investigating is that we now >have >>>>>> duplicate need of devices to power. Some are AC devices like PC >>>>>> routers. >>>>>> Some are 20-24VDC w/AC adapters. Some are new licensed gear >running on >>>>>> 48V. >>>>>> Cost is increased having long battery run time on both seperate AC >and >>>>>> DC >>>>>> backup power subsystems. And how do we plan for load growth? How >many >>>>>> new >>>>>> radios installed will be AC or DC? Unlicensed versus Licensed? We >>>>>> really >>>>>> dont know in advance. There is a lot of power waste going from AC >to >>>>>> DC >>>>>> to >>>>>> AC to DC. >>>>>> >>>>>> The thought was... If long run time was accomplished by the >propaine >>>>>> generator, both DC and AC battery subsystems could be installed >with >>>>>> lower >>>>>> cost lower run-time batteries. We'd still need to account for max >>>>>> watts >>>>>> growth for each subsystem, but we could way reduce AH requirements >for >>>>>> both >>>>>> subsystems. >>>>>> >>>>>> Or am I making this to complicated, and better just sticking with >>>>>> batteries >>>>>> :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris Erikson's idea on solar panels sounded interesting. >Although, I >>>>>> bet >>>>>> my >>>>>> ruthless roof rights people will try to charge me a monthly colo >fee >>>>>> for >>>>>> them :-( >>>>>> I wonder if I can make the solar panels look like rain/weather >shields >>>>>> :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom DeReggi >>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "jp" <j...@saucer.midcoast.com> >>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:11 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> The tripplite APS is what we use for this. Small generators are a >>>>>>> pain. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 02:57:23PM -0430, os10ru...@gmail.com >wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You might want something like an inverter (Xantrex for example) >which >>>>>>>> includes a DC to AC inverter, battery charger, and automatic >transfer >>>>>>>> switch. Add the batteries and you're done. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>> That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning >toward a >>>>>>>>> UPS. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost >less >>>>>>>>> and be far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the >>>>>>>>> batteries @ 24VDC. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks again >>>>>>>>> Jerry >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Gary Garrett >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM >>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Small generators do not auto start very reliably. >>>>>>>>> When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can >overheat >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas >engines, >>>>>>>>> propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, >diesel can >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to >>>>>>>>> changing >>>>>>>>> conditions. >>>>>>>>> Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 >phase. >>>>>>>>> (1955 >>>>>>>>> Model) >>>>>>>>> The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times. >>>>>>>>> Everything is >>>>>>>>> adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage >from >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. >Only >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator >is not >>>>>>>>> starting and get it fixed. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jerry Richardson wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup >but it >>>>>>>>>> does not start reliably. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only >need >>>>>>>>>> to power a CMMmicro - ~100watts. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Jerry Richardson >>>>>>>>>> airCloud Communications >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >------------------ >>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >------------------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------- >----------------- >>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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