I don't remember, you'd have to call them. --C
3-dB Networks wrote: > What do those cost? > > Daniel White > 3-dB Networks > http://www.3dbnetworks.com > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf Of Curtis Maurand >> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 8:08 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >> >> >> Something like that. These guys have one that runs for 90 hours is 250 >> watts 12 or 24 VDC and uses a methanol and water mix. methane fuel >> cells don't use platinum and are, therefore, less expensive. Its >> configurable with an RS-232 port. It can be used as a battery charger >> as well so that if your system has dropped to battery, it will recharge >> the battery after its charge has dropped to a configurable level. Its >> pretty cool stuff. I was looking to backup power an entire data center >> with one of the larger ones a couple of years ago. There is a european >> company called BAXI that makes fuel cells as well. This one is perfect >> for the application requirements in the original email. I don't recall >> them as being that expensive either. >> >> >> http://www.idatech.com/Products-and-Services-iGen-System2.asp >> >> >> --Curtis >> >> Tom DeReggi wrote: >> >>> Thanks.... >>> >>> PS. Isn't Hydrogen Fual Cell the technology Spring just got like $X >>> >> billion >> >>> grant to pioneer? >>> >>> Tom DeReggi >>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Curtis Maurand" <[email protected]> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 3:14 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Sorry, I should have posted this page. >>>> >>>> no moving parts. >>>> >>>> http://www.idatech.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom DeReggi wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Patrick, >>>>> >>>>> All excellent points, and reality checks. Thanks for the feedback! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tom DeReggi >>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[email protected]> >>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:58 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I think you'll find that to get a propane/NG generator installed on >>>>>> >> a >> >>>>>> commercial building rooftop, you'll be looking at $10k minimum >>>>>> >> using >> >>>>>> even the cheapest Generac air-cooled units. You'll need a roofing >>>>>> company to come out and modify the roof to provide a mounting >>>>>> >> surface >> >>>>>> for the generator, that will probably be the biggest cost. Getting >>>>>> management comfortable with modifying a $300k roof membrane could >>>>>> >> be an >> >>>>>> issue as well. Then getting gas to the unit from the building's gas >>>>>> supply will require a plumbing contractor, permits, inspections. >>>>>> >> Then >> >>>>>> the electrical hookup- more permits and inspections and a licensed >>>>>> >> EC. >> >>>>>> I just got a quote for qty 8 110AH 12v AGM batteries for a new >>>>>> >> site: >> >>>>>> $1500 including shipping. >>>>>> >>>>>> A note on the Generac air-cooled generators. They break. All >>>>>> >> generators >> >>>>>> break. The key is routine testing and PM. The generac air-cooled >>>>>> >> models >> >>>>>> don't have any provision for automatic alarm reporting. So when a >>>>>> battery dies or gas valve sticks or spark plug fouls or whatever, >>>>>> >> you >> >>>>>> won't know about it until a manual site inspection or the power >>>>>> >> goes >> >>>>>> out. The better generators (and the Generac liquid cooled models) >>>>>> >> have >> >>>>>> contact closures or RS232 interfaces to report these conditions to >>>>>> >> your >> >>>>>> site monitoring system, in turn notifying you back at the NOC. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Patrick Shoemaker >>>>>> Vector Data Systems LLC >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> office: (301) 358-1690 x36 >>>>>> http://www.vectordatasystems.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom DeReggi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> We also use the triplite APS inverters with good quality Gel cell. >>>>>>> Actually, >>>>>>> we got a good 15 years out of the existing C&D batteries, because >>>>>>> >> we >> >>>>>>> inherited them from Teligent days :-) >>>>>>> But new, qty 4- 12V 150AH batteries in series for about 3500watt >>>>>>> >> and >> >>>>>>> decent >>>>>>> run-time is $1400. + $800 for replacement inverters. (The >>>>>>> >> Triplites >> >>>>>>> worked >>>>>>> really well, but about half of them died by the end of eight >>>>>>> >> years. We >> >>>>>>> matched good inverters with good pre-existing batteries and vice >>>>>>> versa.) >>>>>>> So >>>>>>> our thought was.... Why not buy a $2000 generator for the run-time >>>>>>> >> and >> >>>>>>> load, >>>>>>> and then several smaller UPSes for infront to cover the surges, >>>>>>> >> power >> >>>>>>> conditioning, and monitoring? Ones that keep running even when >>>>>>> batteries >>>>>>> short out. Part of the reason we are investigating is that we now >>>>>>> >> have >> >>>>>>> duplicate need of devices to power. Some are AC devices like PC >>>>>>> routers. >>>>>>> Some are 20-24VDC w/AC adapters. Some are new licensed gear >>>>>>> >> running on >> >>>>>>> 48V. >>>>>>> Cost is increased having long battery run time on both seperate AC >>>>>>> >> and >> >>>>>>> DC >>>>>>> backup power subsystems. And how do we plan for load growth? How >>>>>>> >> many >> >>>>>>> new >>>>>>> radios installed will be AC or DC? Unlicensed versus Licensed? We >>>>>>> really >>>>>>> dont know in advance. There is a lot of power waste going from AC >>>>>>> >> to >> >>>>>>> DC >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> AC to DC. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The thought was... If long run time was accomplished by the >>>>>>> >> propaine >> >>>>>>> generator, both DC and AC battery subsystems could be installed >>>>>>> >> with >> >>>>>>> lower >>>>>>> cost lower run-time batteries. We'd still need to account for max >>>>>>> watts >>>>>>> growth for each subsystem, but we could way reduce AH requirements >>>>>>> >> for >> >>>>>>> both >>>>>>> subsystems. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Or am I making this to complicated, and better just sticking with >>>>>>> batteries >>>>>>> :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris Erikson's idea on solar panels sounded interesting. >>>>>>> >> Although, I >> >>>>>>> bet >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> ruthless roof rights people will try to charge me a monthly colo >>>>>>> >> fee >> >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> them :-( >>>>>>> I wonder if I can make the solar panels look like rain/weather >>>>>>> >> shields >> >>>>>>> :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom DeReggi >>>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "jp" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:11 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The tripplite APS is what we use for this. Small generators are a >>>>>>>> pain. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 02:57:23PM -0430, [email protected] >>>>>>>> >> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You might want something like an inverter (Xantrex for example) >>>>>>>>> >> which >> >>>>>>>>> includes a DC to AC inverter, battery charger, and automatic >>>>>>>>> >> transfer >> >>>>>>>>> switch. Add the batteries and you're done. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>>> That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning >>>>>>>>>> >> toward a >> >>>>>>>>>> UPS. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost >>>>>>>>>> >> less >> >>>>>>>>>> and be far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the >>>>>>>>>> batteries @ 24VDC. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks again >>>>>>>>>> Jerry >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:wireless- >>>>>>>>>> >> [email protected]] >> >>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Gary Garrett >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Small generators do not auto start very reliably. >>>>>>>>>> When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can >>>>>>>>>> >> overheat >> >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas >>>>>>>>>> >> engines, >> >>>>>>>>>> propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, >>>>>>>>>> >> diesel can >> >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to >>>>>>>>>> changing >>>>>>>>>> conditions. >>>>>>>>>> Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 >>>>>>>>>> >> phase. >> >>>>>>>>>> (1955 >>>>>>>>>> Model) >>>>>>>>>> The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times. >>>>>>>>>> Everything is >>>>>>>>>> adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage >>>>>>>>>> >> from >> >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. >>>>>>>>>> >> Only >> >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator >>>>>>>>>> >> is not >> >>>>>>>>>> starting and get it fixed. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jerry Richardson wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup >>>>>>>>>>> >> but it >> >>>>>>>>>>> does not start reliably. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only >>>>>>>>>>> >> need >> >>>>>>>>>>> to power a CMMmicro - ~100watts. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Jerry Richardson >>>>>>>>>>> airCloud Communications >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> >> ------------------ >> >>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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