Patrick,
In general, sounds like good advice.
To clarify our intent, in posting.....
>From yr 2000-2008, our model was to....
1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites.
2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered generator,
in longer lasting Emergencies.
(We have a couple hot spare generators)
Why are we changing our view point?
1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are
still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka
Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the
batteries, based on watt load at the sites.
2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the
challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to get
to multiple locations at once with generators.
Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end
of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the
time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes.
3) Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-)
We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and not
necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course still
keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle
than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me
quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when
needed.
We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to,
so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own.
I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management would
have for this type stuff. For example, whether they would be concerned
about it blowing up if a gas leak occured.
I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical
connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would
require Xray and drilling every floor of 20.
There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking
maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the
tank after use?
I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount on
ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up.
Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features
for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet the
requirements of code and property managers.
For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[email protected]>
To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
> Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will
> be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues.
> However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency
> power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict
> requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and
> fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer,
> you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power
> from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of
> their tenants for phone systems, etc.
>
> Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and
> place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery
> capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the
> rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries.
>
>
> Patrick Shoemaker
> Vector Data Systems LLC
> [email protected]
> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
>
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>> While on the topic of generators.....
>>
>> Anyone have advice on how to accommodate generators in Commercial
>> Multi-tenant buildings.
>>
>> Several things come to mind... Gas generators are definately not allowed
>> on
>> roofs, for fire safety reasons.
>> Adequate ventilation is likely needed for either gas or Propain
>> generators.
>>
>> What type propain generators would likely gain permission to get
>> installed
>> in a rooftop penthouse? or Roof?
>>
>> If a propain generator was used on a top floor, how would Propain get
>> re-fueled easilly?
>> Is is standard proceedure to have removable tanks, and just have new
>> tanks
>> swapped (like a gas grill).?
>> Or is is customary to have tanks on the ground level?
>> Or is it always standard to put the generator at ground level, and run AC
>> wire up to the roof level?
>> Do propain gas trucks have long enough hoses to reach rooms inside
>> parking
>> garages? Not likely will fit driving into parking garage?
>>
>> Do property owners worry about propain blowing up, and have limits to
>> where
>> the tanks can be placed?
>>
>> I'm sure some of this is in local building code. And I can probably best
>> guess some of the answers for above.
>>
>> But what re other people doing, to both install and maintain at the
>> lowest
>> dollar cost.?
>>
>> I saw those Generac propain models before, and they are very affordable.
>> Just wondering if feasible to install them on roofs/penthouses.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jerry Richardson" <[email protected]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 3:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>>
>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning toward a UPS.
>>>
>>> A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost less and be
>>> far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the batteries @
>>> 24VDC.
>>>
>>> Thanks again
>>> Jerry
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
>>> Behalf Of Gary Garrett
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>>>
>>> Small generators do not auto start very reliably.
>>> When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can overheat and
>>> burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas engines,
>>> propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, diesel can be
>>> REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to changing
>>> conditions.
>>> Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 phase. (1955
>>> Model)
>>> The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times. Everything is
>>> adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage from the
>>> Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. Only a
>>> huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended.
>>>
>>> You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator is not
>>> starting and get it fixed.
>>>
>>> Jerry Richardson wrote:
>>>> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup but it does
>>>> not start reliably.
>>>>
>>>> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only need to
>>>> power a CMMmicro - ~100watts.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________
>>>> Jerry Richardson
>>>> airCloud Communications
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected]
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected]
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected]
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected]
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected]
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wireless List: [email protected]
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
