Hasan,
Thank you for that very eloquent post! I think your suggestions are
spot-on and I'd LOVE to see all of them implemented.
73,
Mike
WM4B
On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 7:46 AM, Hasan al-Basri wrote:
I agree with every point that Mike (WM4B) made. DXpedition mode is
becoming a scourge on the bands w/r to other modes.
Another person asked for suggestion instead of complaints.
OK, try this on:
1.Disable the mode until real precautions are taken to observe the
current watering holes for other modes.
2. Recode so that DXp mode can ONLY be run in the normal FT8 band
space...that way, when these rogue or even legitimate DXp projects come
on, they will trash the normal FT8 sections ...see how much you like it
when your favorite operating (and agreed upon) frequencies are trashed
by a bunch of hysterical dx'ers.
Since DXp largely requires CAT mode, it should be straightforward (and
only responsible on the part of the authors) to code in a requirement to
run DXp mode in the current FT8 Allotment.
They did it for WSPR...
This would be especially fitting since the FT8 authors created this
monster...the FT8 crowd should be made to live with it.
...and it's easy to dismiss things as "not much of a crisis" when it's
someone else's nest that's being fowled.
Maybe it's time for the FT8 nest to be fowled. and see how much that is
appreciated.
Hasan
On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 6:22 AM, < [email protected]
<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('[email protected]')> >
wrote:
Gary,
As I said, I've recently heard some very good conversation here about
the need to avoid QRM to other modes; that's part of the reason it was
so disappointing to see 40 meters get trashed last night all the way
down to 7068 - or perhaps lower.
The reason I address the developers is twofold. First, I (for one)
certainly saw the potential for this to happen when DXpedition mode was
first discussed. This is the genie they let out of the bottle and I
can't believe they didn't' foresee the potential consequences. Second,
as developers, they should take some responsibility for how their
product is used - and you'd certainly think they'd want it to be used in
a manner that would show them and their product in a positive light.
Recent discussion suggested moving towards the underutilized JT
frequencies, and I think that makes sense. Aside from low utilization,
FT8 and the JT modes share a father, so I think it's only fair that they
live together as family.
Nobody is asking for a curtailing of anything except for poor operating
practice. Many PSK QSOs were QRM'd to the point of making
communications impossible last night, and I don't believe for a minute
that the PSK activity was not visible to the FT8 users. There is no
excuse for anyone on any mode to spoil the fun of others, and yet it's
happening daily. I agree that direction and guidance is needed, but I'm
not so sure I agree with the ability to self-regulate; we all know that
the rules go out the window when DX shows up. If the shoe were on the
other foot and some other mode were causing interference to your
mode-of-choice, I have to think you'd be upset too. I don't know what
sort of guidance or discussion about being good neighbors is occurring
on other email reflectors, but I hope there is active discussion about
the problem.
As I stated in another email, PSK is alive and well and I believe it is
underreported by PSKReporter, based on observations of my own activity.
With regard to a crisis, all I can tell you is that the PSK community
is, for lack of a better word, pissed about the intrusion. For the most
part, we stick to about 1500 Hz in each band, but every time there is a
digital contest, everyone creeps down to that segment. But at least the
contests were short-lived and predictable. FT8 shows up with total
randomness, but alarming regularity. I supposed in reality there isn't
a thing we PSKers can do about it and if FT8 wants to march over the top
of us, you can certainly do it - but I'd really like to think it won't
come to that.
Despite my negative feelings towards the way the mode is being utilized
now, I am NOT anti-FT8 (or anti any-mode), but I DO believe that what
we're seeing now is extremely poor operating practice and it needs to be
reigned in. Now, I'm going to fade back into the noise and see what the
bands look like this evening after 2200 or so with great hope that
sanity and civility have been restored.
73,
Mike
WM4B
On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 12:55 AM, [email protected]
<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('[email protected]')> wrote:
I don’t think it’s fair to blame the developers, Mike, or ask them to
resolve this – at least, not without help from the wider ham community.
They gave us the mode but we are the users – the tools are in our hands
now so we’re all part of this.
Do you or anyone else have any specific or even general suggestions on
how to take this forward? What are we hoping to achieve or avoid? What
are our priorities and timescales?
Despite the emotive words, I am still not convinced there is a crisis
right now, nor is there necessarily one brewing. I would be very
reluctant to curtail the creativity and innovation that has clearly
sparked the imaginations of a majority of active HF DXers. I’m not
arguing for total anarchy, just some restraint over how we set and
adjust the rules of the game, and recognition that the situation is
evolving. With a bit of direction and guidance maybe, I believe we have
the capacity, as a community, to self-regulate and reach a pragmatic
consensus, just as we have done in the past.
73,
Gary ZL2iFB
From: Mike Besemer < [email protected]
<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('[email protected]')> >
Sent: Tuesday, 27 March 2018 1:59 p.m.
To: 'WSJT software development' < [email protected]. net
<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('[email protected]')>
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] DXpedition Mode on 40 Meters?
Yeah… saw those ground loops too. But I’ve seen them on PSK and other
data modes, so I didn’t mention it; it’s not the fault of the mode.
So… developers… how do you put the genie back in the bottle? There is
some serious bad blood brewing.
Mike
WM4B
From: James Shaver [mailto: [email protected]
<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('[email protected]')> ]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 8:54 PM
To: 'WSJT software development'
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] DXpedition Mode on 40 Meters?
It’s more than 7.071 and up – there’s some folks in there with wicked
ground-loop hum and they’re causing issues all the way down to 7.067. To
add to that, some folks saw the activity and have started calling CQ
thinking that they’re seeing an expansion of activity down there – it’s
a complete mess.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Besemer [mailto: [email protected]
<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('[email protected]')> ]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 8:45 PM
To: WSJT software development
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] DXpedition Mode on 40 Meters?
Wow… there had been so much good discussion here about avoiding
interference to other modes, and then this happens. If nothing else,
it’s extremely inconsiderate and the discussion on the PSK31 lists is
not favorable for FT8. I wish the developers would take responsibility
for the genie they’ve let out of the bottle and either find a way to fix
it or get rid of it.
The FT8 crowd would be upset if the shoe were on the other foot.
Mike
WM4B
From:
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 8:39 PM
To: mwbesemer mwbesemer
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] DXpedition Mode on 40 Meters?
Yes he is running the DX mode
Gd luck
On 3/26/2018 7:38 PM, mwbesemer mwbesemer wrote:
Everything from about 7.071 up is useless due to FT8 QRM from stations
calling 7Q7EI. Is he running DXPedition Mode?
Pity people don't listen before they transmit. If the FT8 crowd wonders
why other modes hate them, this is the answer.
Mike
WM4B
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