Not going to work.
Taking 40m as example - What is the ‘FT8 allocation’ ? - all that could be
coded would be the MGM allocation - nothing says FT8 needs to be 7.074 - UK
band plan has digi modes 7.053 - 7.060 and the rest of the 7 Mhz allocation is
‘All Modes’. PSK31 starts from 7.040 - which is actually well away from 7.071
that was in use last night.
Yes there are a few 'centre of activities’, may vary slightly by region - heck
a job to code all those into Dx mode esp the number of bands and regions there
are these days.
How many ‘proper’ DX piditions will there be? - if you have your favourite chat
freq on SSB suddenly taken over by an expedition do you throw toys out of pram
and blame those that introduced SSB - no you realises it will be a few days or
a week or so and you live with it.
The general usage of the watering holes will quieten down over time - not
addressing that just the Dx Mode - 100% of the time it will be the expedition
itself that specifies the frequencies they plan to use - it is those people you
need to address this issue to. Remind them there are others ‘watering holes’
in the all mode section they should avoid. Perhaps there should be a ‘Centre of
activity’ on each band for DX operations?
73’
Tom
GM8MJV
On 27 Mar 2018, at 13:15, [email protected] wrote:
> Hasan,
>
> Thank you for that very eloquent post! I think your suggestions are spot-on
> and I'd LOVE to see all of them implemented.
>
> 73,
>
> Mike
> WM4B
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 7:46 AM, Hasan al-Basri wrote:
>
> I agree with every point that Mike (WM4B) made. DXpedition mode is becoming
> a scourge on the bands w/r to other modes.
>
>
> Another person asked for suggestion instead of complaints.
>
>
> OK, try this on:
>
>
> 1.Disable the mode until real precautions are taken to observe the current
> watering holes for other modes.
>
>
> 2. Recode so that DXp mode can ONLY be run in the normal FT8 band
> space...that way, when these rogue or even legitimate DXp projects come on,
> they will trash the normal FT8 sections ...see how much you like it when your
> favorite operating (and agreed upon) frequencies are trashed by a bunch of
> hysterical dx'ers.
>
>
> Since DXp largely requires CAT mode, it should be straightforward (and only
> responsible on the part of the authors) to code in a requirement to run DXp
> mode in the current FT8 Allotment.
> They did it for WSPR...
>
>
> This would be especially fitting since the FT8 authors created this
> monster...the FT8 crowd should be made to live with it.
>
>
> ...and it's easy to dismiss things as "not much of a crisis" when it's
> someone else's nest that's being fowled.
>
>
> Maybe it's time for the FT8 nest to be fowled. and see how much that is
> appreciated.
>
>
>
> Hasan
>
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 6:22 AM, < [email protected]> wrote:
> Gary,
>
> As I said, I've recently heard some very good conversation here about the
> need to avoid QRM to other modes; that's part of the reason it was so
> disappointing to see 40 meters get trashed last night all the way down to
> 7068 - or perhaps lower.
>
> The reason I address the developers is twofold. First, I (for one) certainly
> saw the potential for this to happen when DXpedition mode was first
> discussed. This is the genie they let out of the bottle and I can't believe
> they didn't' foresee the potential consequences. Second, as developers, they
> should take some responsibility for how their product is used - and you'd
> certainly think they'd want it to be used in a manner that would show them
> and their product in a positive light.
>
> Recent discussion suggested moving towards the underutilized JT frequencies,
> and I think that makes sense. Aside from low utilization, FT8 and the JT
> modes share a father, so I think it's only fair that they live together as
> family.
>
> Nobody is asking for a curtailing of anything except for poor operating
> practice. Many PSK QSOs were QRM'd to the point of making communications
> impossible last night, and I don't believe for a minute that the PSK activity
> was not visible to the FT8 users. There is no excuse for anyone on any mode
> to spoil the fun of others, and yet it's happening daily. I agree that
> direction and guidance is needed, but I'm not so sure I agree with the
> ability to self-regulate; we all know that the rules go out the window when
> DX shows up. If the shoe were on the other foot and some other mode were
> causing interference to your mode-of-choice, I have to think you'd be upset
> too. I don't know what sort of guidance or discussion about being good
> neighbors is occurring on other email reflectors, but I hope there is active
> discussion about the problem.
>
> As I stated in another email, PSK is alive and well and I believe it is
> underreported by PSKReporter, based on observations of my own activity.
>
> With regard to a crisis, all I can tell you is that the PSK community is, for
> lack of a better word, pissed about the intrusion. For the most part, we
> stick to about 1500 Hz in each band, but every time there is a digital
> contest, everyone creeps down to that segment. But at least the contests
> were short-lived and predictable. FT8 shows up with total randomness, but
> alarming regularity. I supposed in reality there isn't a thing we PSKers can
> do about it and if FT8 wants to march over the top of us, you can certainly
> do it - but I'd really like to think it won't come to that.
>
> Despite my negative feelings towards the way the mode is being utilized now,
> I am NOT anti-FT8 (or anti any-mode), but I DO believe that what we're seeing
> now is extremely poor operating practice and it needs to be reigned in. Now,
> I'm going to fade back into the noise and see what the bands look like this
> evening after 2200 or so with great hope that sanity and civility have been
> restored.
>
> 73,
>
> Mike
> WM4B
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 12:55 AM, [email protected]:
>
> I don’t think it’s fair to blame the developers, Mike, or ask them to resolve
> this – at least, not without help from the wider ham community. They gave us
> the mode but we are the users – the tools are in our hands now so we’re all
> part of this.
>
> Do you or anyone else have any specific or even general suggestions on how to
> take this forward? What are we hoping to achieve or avoid? What are our
> priorities and timescales?
>
> Despite the emotive words, I am still not convinced there is a crisis right
> now, nor is there necessarily one brewing. I would be very reluctant to
> curtail the creativity and innovation that has clearly sparked the
> imaginations of a majority of active HF DXers. I’m not arguing for total
> anarchy, just some restraint over how we set and adjust the rules of the
> game, and recognition that the situation is evolving. With a bit of
> direction and guidance maybe, I believe we have the capacity, as a community,
> to self-regulate and reach a pragmatic consensus, just as we have done in the
> past.
>
> 73,
>
> Gary ZL2iFB
>
>
>
> From: Mike Besemer < [email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, 27 March 2018 1:59 p.m.
> To: 'WSJT software development' < [email protected]. net>
> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] DXpedition Mode on 40 Meters?
>
>
> Yeah… saw those ground loops too. But I’ve seen them on PSK and other data
> modes, so I didn’t mention it; it’s not the fault of the mode.
>
>
> So… developers… how do you put the genie back in the bottle? There is some
> serious bad blood brewing.
>
>
> Mike
>
> WM4B
>
>
> From: James Shaver [mailto: [email protected]] Sent: Monday, March 26,
> 2018 8:54 PM
> To: 'WSJT software development'
> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] DXpedition Mode on 40 Meters?
>
>
> It’s more than 7.071 and up – there’s some folks in there with wicked
> ground-loop hum and they’re causing issues all the way down to 7.067. To add
> to that, some folks saw the activity and have started calling CQ thinking
> that they’re seeing an expansion of activity down there – it’s a complete
> mess.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Besemer [mailto: [email protected]] Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018
> 8:45 PM
> To: WSJT software development
> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] DXpedition Mode on 40 Meters?
>
>
> Wow… there had been so much good discussion here about avoiding interference
> to other modes, and then this happens. If nothing else, it’s extremely
> inconsiderate and the discussion on the PSK31 lists is not favorable for FT8.
> I wish the developers would take responsibility for the genie they’ve let
> out of the bottle and either find a way to fix it or get rid of it.
>
> The FT8 crowd would be upset if the shoe were on the other foot.
>
>
> Mike
>
> WM4B
>
>
> From:
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 8:39 PM
>
> To: mwbesemer mwbesemer
>
> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] DXpedition Mode on 40 Meters?
>
>
> Yes he is running the DX mode
>
> Gd luck
>
> On 3/26/2018 7:38 PM, mwbesemer mwbesemer wrote:
>
> Everything from about 7.071 up is useless due to FT8 QRM from stations
> calling 7Q7EI. Is he running DXPedition Mode?
>
>
> Pity people don't listen before they transmit. If the FT8 crowd wonders why
> other modes hate them, this is the answer.
>
> Mike
>
> WM4B
>
>
>
>
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