Hi Rodney, I've read that many come to practice as a result of such states of crisis, such as depression, suicide, divorce, or whatever the situation may be, and that this can be a strong stimulus to their practice, whereas those of us who come from an intellectual perspective (that would be me) don't have the same strong impetus for practice (I'm not too good with words, and hope I'm getting the idea across anyway). Our Zen teacher said pretty much the same during a recent teisho.
I have a friend who has suffered depression for years, and who solves this by the chemical route (prescribed by her doc, of course), and who is quite satisfied with that, but who doesn't like to experience the depression or seek out the root cause of it. Her husband of some 30 years passed away last fall, and she was plunged into it again. The solution for her was again, chemical manipulation. I've suggested meditation, but there are no groups in her local area, and while she's kind to be about my interests, she is the kind of person who believes in, and prefers, docs who cut & sew and prescribe meds, and has had lots of experience with the same. I have another friend, a member of our sangha, who went through terrible depths of depression, and who says he finally got tired of crisis after crisis and came back to Zen, having tested the waters some years before. He says he feels he can change the pattern of his life, his childhood upbringing, the legacy he inherited from his parents. I think all emotions are to be accepted in practice, and the crises that stem from depression are that of someone who doesn't accept this part of their life, who struggles with it. The program I mentioned is not for getting rid of depression, but learning how to deal with it in your life, to accept it. So yes, depression is indeed something to be embraced, but I suppose one has to go through a kind of spiritual transformation in order to get there. I did read a book by Philip Martin called "The Zen Path Through Depression", and it might be useful for the person who started this post, but I agree, the individual suffering from depression is the one that has to get the ball rolling in terms of wanting to work through it. I have other acquaintances who suffer from depression as well, but I've never found the right way to help them, I only suggest the MBSR course as a simple way of learning to accept it. What do you think the difference is between ordinary depression and spiritual depression, or are they the same? I'm a bit confused there. Susan --- In [email protected], Rodney Yasushi Horikawa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Susan, thanks for a great thought provoking post... > > You know, I get that in modern Western psychology depression is viewed as a > dysfunctional mental state... And I get that the state of ³depression² > exists along a continuum and that in certain cases there is very much > chemical balances that may require pharmacological interventions.. > > That said, in the ³psychology² of spirituality doesn¹t depression have a > more ³functional² role on the landscape of praxis? For example, doesn¹t both > Christian and Buddhist practitioners of meditation recognize the ³dark night > of the soul² as a critical ³stage² of the path? Isn¹t (spiritual) depression > a state to be embraced? > > I¹m currently reading a wonderful book entitled ³Japanese Death Poems > Written by Zen Monks and Haiku Poets on the Verge of Death². Like > practitioners of tea ceremony and calligraphy, Zen haiku poets aspire to > evoke/attain a ³state of consciousness² called ³mono no aware². Edward > Seidensticker, the brilliant translator of the ³Tale of the Genji² defined > ³mono no aware² as the deep spiritual sadness that occurs during the > simultaneous perception of beauty and the transitory nature of all things. > Ivan Morris, the late great scholar of Japanese literature, defined ³mono no > aware² as spiritual pathos/depression. In any event, it can be argued that > if spiritual depression was not embraced in certain circles of Zen, much of > haiku, tea ceremony, calligraphy, etc would simply not have existed... > > So my question is what exactly is the role of depression if any in our > Zen Buddhist practices? > > Gassho, > Rodney > > > On 5/1/06 4:56 PM, "Susan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > There are a number of groups around that teach mindfulness > > meditation for people with depression and other types of mental > > problems - but they are not limited to these types of people as this > > is how I first learned how to meditate, and I don't suffer from any > > of these problems, I just wanted to learn how to meditate. > > > > "Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction" or MBSR is the name of the > > program, it is commonly facilitated by > > psychiatrists/psychotherapists, but not always. The program was > > developed by Jon Kabat-Zinn at the University of Massachusetts > > Medical Centre and is widely offered throughout the United States > > and Canada. Doing a simple google search for this program and the > > city in which your friend is in might bring up something useful. > > It's an 8 week program in which one practices about 45 minutes each > > night, and they meet together once a week to talk about their > > experiences and meditate as a group. > > > > This is a good way to get started and begin to deal with depression > > to boot, without aligning oneself with a particular branch of > > Buddhism. > > > > Susan > > > > --- In [email protected], "dkotschessa" <dkotschessa@> > > wrote: > >> > > >> > --- In [email protected], "greentealeaf111" > >> > <greentealeaf111@> wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > How could handle a friend with depression, without becoming > >>> > > depressed? What is the Zen teaching on depression? > >>> > > > >> > > >> > Depends on what you mean by "handle." If they want to get out of > > it, > >> > it's really something they have to do themselves. > >> > > >> > As far as a "zen teaching on depression" it's really just like any > >> > emotion. You just need to be 100% aware of it, observe it > > mindfully > >> > and continue your practice (zazen or whatever). Emotions are just > >> > physiological storms in your body. Depression is kind of a > > monsoon! > >> > > >> > If you are worried about "catching" it from another person when > > you > >> > are trying to help them, mindfulness/awareness is really your > > guard > >> > against that. > >> > > >> > -DaveK > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------ Yahoo! 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