Margie (and Bill),
What nonsense! That experience suggests there is an objective world
(the eggplant) and that the cognitive representation of that world is
illusion. Only if the monk went back again later and it wasn't an
eggplant but a squashed frog and kept changing every time he looked
at then we might conclude there was no objective world. The monk
accepted that the reality of the objective world was the eggplant,
not the squashed frog illusion in his mind.
My point again is that what is in the mind and what is in the world
is the same thing and that it is only one thing, and that the rules
that govern all that are causal and consistent. That includes the
phenomenon of errors of the senses and cognition that can be
corrected by internal consistency.
That is true because things are only illusion in the sense that they
are observer dependent views of reality. Reality itself has no
reality independent of any observer. Just as in relativity there is
no absolute motion, only motion relative to an observer. Every event
is an 'experience' or observation by an 'observer' even if it is just
an electron responding to a force. The whole idea of an external
reality independent of observers is a construct of the mind and
represents the cognitive world view of every organism, each of which
is different and dependent on the biological and cognitive structure
of that organism.
And that view is my own cognitive construct in my own mind which
depends on my cognitive structure.
So we go round and round and never get to any observer independent
external reality. Therefore everything is illusion, but only in the
sense that it is impossible to identify an objective reality behind
everything independent on any observer's direct experience since no
observer could ever experience it.
So what is not illusion, at least in my experience, is the illusion -
that is the contents of direct experience in the ground of the
present moment, but known to be illusion since their manifestation
depends on my structure. And even worse, my supposed structure which
determines reality is a construct of its own structure! But at least
in my experience that is consistent and follows causal rules.
Those are the contents of consciousness. I can however experience
experience more directly when all contents fade away and only pure
consciousness remains, that experience is the reality of the present
moment empty of all, or almost all, content. Or, if I open my eyes,
the perceptual content reappears but is not categorized by the mind.
That categorization, e.g. the separation of the perceptual content
into discrete things which stand in relationships to each other is a
construct of the mind and as such is illusion. But it is a consistent
illusion ruled by causality.
And since that is all there is, that illusion must be accepted as
reality, but only when recognized to be illusion.
On Oct 15, 2008, at 10:45 AM, roloro1557 wrote:
There was a monk who specialized in the buddhist precepts, and had
kept to them all his life. Once when he was walking at night, he
stepped on something. It made a squishing sound, and he thought he had
stepped on an egg-bearing frog. This caused him no end of alarm and
regret, in view of the precept against taking life. When he finally
went to sleep that night he dreamed that hundreds of frogs came to him
demanding his life.
The monk was terribly upset, but when morning came he decided to go
and look, and he found that what he had stepped on was an overripe
eggplant. At that moment his feelings suddenly stopped, and for the
first time he realized the meaning of the saying that there is no
objective world. Then he finally knew how to practice zen.
FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
The way to do is be. Lao Tzu