Please give me specific examples of what an advanced zen practitioner can do, 
after 'breaking through belief systems and acting beyond ego'.
I have read:
-  Zen Master Nanchuan killed a cat, because it caused a serious quarrel 
between two groups of monks.
-  Zen Master Sohng Sahn (died a couple of years ago) compared having sex to a 
porcupine getting into a narrow hole (too addictive to get out).
-  Monks practisin zen wash their bowls, after having rice, with tea, then dry 
them, so that no water is used to save that precious resource.
-  A monk licks maggots on a wound of a dog, for fear of hurting the maggots 
and the dog (this may be a myth, but is representative of certain thinkings)
What do you think of them?

--- On Tue, 13/1/09, mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, 13 January, 2009, 6:15 PM

Hi Al,

This is not true of Zen at all. A person in a society usually adopts the 
beliefs, moral, ethics that have been passed down to him/her. There is nothing 
inherently true in those beliefs. Often a person will face a situation which 
demands he act in accordance with his society's moals/religious beliefs but 
which creates a conflict with his individual conscience. This in turn creates a 
constant 'mulling' over of the situation eg, is it 'just', good or bad etc. 
This is the very thing Zen stands against because this constant thinking and 
rationalising comes from an ego at war with itself and the moral beliefs of 
society (such beliefs are more often than not an obstruction to executing an 
immediate action). A Zen-aware person has broken thru the belief system of his 
culture and has become a 'master' of himself and so acts instantly with no 
thought of what is 'just', good/bad according to a hegemonic system that comes 
from outside of himself. 

So, a person acting from the Zen standpoint is far from amoral. They are always 
open, present, balanced and acting beyond ego. It is the taking away of a 
belief in morals that creates this state (enlightenment) but which produces 
behaviour that could be called 'moral' as viewed by most of the worlds major 


--- On Tue, 13/1/09, fitness4u2163 <fitness1963@ yahoo.com> wrote:

Anthony Wu > Karma is the best thing to ensure moral values. As soon 
as they hear about moral values, many will say we are just dogmatic. >

It is disturbing to me that many who want to practice zen think it is 
some amoral system to ease their conscience every day so they can do 
evil to others while feeling a sense of peace and happiness. 


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