Good day All,

If I may jump in,,,,,  As an advanced practitioner, if there is such a 
term.....,,

He/She shall know at every moment that every encounter in our lives is 
dharma.  It is the purpose of this "advanced practitioner" to fulfill, 
consummate, harmonize, resolve, without expectation, without judgment, 
without asking why or how.

As Nike said, "Just do it."  I would append with, "within our available 
resources."

The definition of a practitioner is to "practice and apply".  The apply 
part is the sweetest.  It is th essence of Chan practice.
_/\_

billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:
>
> Anthony and Mike,
>
> I'm jumping into this discussion to say that I still am not getting 
> posts from Mike. I read his post attached to this post (Anthony's) and 
> wanted to say I agree with it for the most part.
>
> As for Anthony's questions below:
> - Some examples of what an advanced zen practitioner can do are: wake 
> when refreshed, eat when hungry, wash your bowls and sleep when tired. 
> The important part about these are not that they are remarkable, the 
> important part about these is when you do them, you DO THEM and ONLY 
> THEM. You don't think about what you're going to do later when you are 
> eating. When eating, Just EAT! When washing your bowls, Just WASH YOUR 
> BOWLS! Always, Just THIS!
>
> - The stories you read are just stories - zen stories. Don't try to 
> intellectualize them. When you read them Just READ!
>
> Read the koan concerning Nanchaun (Nanzen - Jp.) and the cat again. 
> It's Case 14 in the GATELESS GATE koan collection. The part about the 
> monks quarreling and the 'killing' of the cat is incidental to the 
> story. Read the Commentaries and Teisho on the case.
>
> Seung Sahn (Soen Sa Nim) was a contemporary Zen Master in the Korean 
> Zen Buddhist tradition. His comparison about sex and a porcupine in a 
> narrow hole may have been meant to refer to any type of addiction. 
> Maybe he had a problem with addiction to sex. His comparison may only 
> apply to him and not to you. Again, don't overly intellectualize his 
> words, and no matter WHO the author of a quote is, even Gautama 
> Siddhartha Buddha, the quotes are just words, may be misquoted or 
> awkwardly interpreted, and may or may not apply to you. In any event 
> YOU are the one who must discovery Buddha Nature and then you burn all 
> your books.
>
> The other two examples you cite are just extreme examples of 
> Compassion, a trait that is stressed in Buddhism and is inherent in 
> Buddha Nature.
>
> Mike, I am not getting your posts via email from 
> Zen_Forum@Yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40Yahoogroups.com>. If you 
> post something you REALLY REALLY want me to read, please either copy 
> me on the email or send me an alert that you've posted something. My 
> email address I use for the forum is billsm...@hhs1963.org 
> <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org>.
>
> Thanks...Bill!
>
> From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> 
> [mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 5:44 AM
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God
>
> Mike,
>
> Please give me specific examples of what an advanced zen practitioner 
> can do, after 'breaking through belief systems and acting beyond ego'.
>
> I have read:
> - Zen Master Nanchuan killed a cat, because it caused a serious 
> quarrel between two groups of monks.
> - Zen Master Sohng Sahn (died a couple of years ago) compared having 
> sex to a porcupine getting into a narrow hole (too addictive to get out).
> - Monks practisin zen wash their bowls, after having rice, with tea, 
> then dry them, so that no water is used to save that precious resource..
> - A monk licks maggots on a wound of a dog, for fear of hurting the 
> maggots and the dog (this may be a myth, but is representative of 
> certain thinkings)
>
> What do you think of them?
>
> Anthony
>
> --- On Tue, 13/1/09, mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk 
> <mailto:uerusuboyo%40yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
> From: mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk 
> <mailto:uerusuboyo%40yahoo.co.uk>>
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tuesday, 13 January, 2009, 6:15 PM
> Hi Al,
>
> This is not true of Zen at all. A person in a society usually adopts 
> the beliefs, moral, ethics that have been passed down to him/her. 
> There is nothing inherently true in those beliefs. Often a person will 
> face a situation which demands he act in accordance with his society's 
> moals/religious beliefs but which creates a conflict with his 
> individual conscience. This in turn creates a constant 'mulling' over 
> of the situation eg, is it 'just', good or bad etc. This is the very 
> thing Zen stands against because this constant thinking and 
> rationalising comes from an ego at war with itself and the moral 
> beliefs of society (such beliefs are more often than not an 
> obstruction to executing an immediate action). A Zen-aware person has 
> broken thru the belief system of his culture and has become a 'master' 
> of himself and so acts instantly with no thought of what is 'just', 
> good/bad according to a hegemonic system that comes from outside of 
> himself.
>
> So, a person acting from the Zen standpoint is far from amoral. They 
> are always open, present, balanced and acting beyond ego. It is the 
> taking away of a belief in morals that creates this state 
> (enlightenment) but which produces behaviour that could be called 
> 'moral' as viewed by most of the worlds major religions.
>
> Mike
>
> --- On Tue, 13/1/09, fitness4u2163 <fitness1963@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Anthony Wu > Karma is the best thing to ensure moral values. As soon
> as they hear about moral values, many will say we are just dogmatic. >
>
> It is disturbing to me that many who want to practice zen think it is
> some amoral system to ease their conscience every day so they can do
> evil to others while feeling a sense of peace and happiness.
>
> ________________________________________
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