Tantric visualization is the opposite of zazen. The technique of imagination 
can be compared to color TV. In contrast, unfortunately, Bill's 'just sit' is 
very boring, equivalent to a black and white TV. So, anybody looking for a 
spectacular carrier should practice Tantrism, including its sex rituals. 

--- On Sat, 11/9/10, <> wrote:

From: <>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Other traditions
Date: Saturday, 11 September, 2010, 6:50 AM


I think you have the beginnings of something.  The Tantric visualization 
approach and guidance along the lines of Llamaism could be seen as a 
counterpart to zazen path of Zen, you are using the outward (contemplation, 
meditation, etc) to reach greater inner clarity and expression . . . You could 
make the case that once a certain station is reached you are zazen, you are 
attention, the pure self, the selflessness of self.  
Once again the Sufis address this over and over again within the context of 
their teaching stories, meditation, action techniques, gatherings, poetry, etc 
-- drinking the wine and going beyond the vessel . . . same thing as gone gone 
to the other shore . . .don't need the boat anymore.  

In a message dated 9/10/2010 2:38:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes:

I am 90% in agreement with you. There are a lot of differences between Tibetan 
Tantra and traditional Buddhism. The most significant is their attitude and 
practice on sex rituals. On the other hand, the Tantra also has a lot of 
colorful and spectacular techniques. If they help some. why not practice them 
whether or not they can be consifered Buddhism

--- On Fri, 10/9/10, <> wrote:

From: <>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Other traditions
Date: Friday, 10 September, 2010, 9:47 PM


I myself don’t consider Tibetan ‘Buddhism’ actually Buddhist.  I should more 
rightfully be classified as ‘Lamaism’ – with maybe some Buddhist terminology.  
It’s chock full of superstitions, gods and spirits and a lot of mysticism (and 
not just ‘chi’), the most well known of which is their belief that the Dalai 
Lama which is their ‘God-King’, and whom they believe is a reincarnation of the 
former Dalai Lama clear back to an actual ‘god’ (of Compassion).
And don’t get me started on the Dalai Lama…Bill! 

From: [] On Behalf Of 
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:49 AM
Subject: [Zen] Other traditions

I have a strange feeling towards other Buddhist traditions. While I find 
interesting messages in reading about Christianity or even Islam and Judaism 
(Hinduism I find too alien, although I love some of the imagery and mythology), 
I have a sort of block against other Buddhist traditions. I can admire somone 
like the The Dalai Lama, but I find Tibetan Buddhism too esoteric. I have had a 
few negative experiences on chat boards with other Buddhists in Theravada and 
Vajranaya traditions, where they even denigrated Zen. Does anyone else find 
that other Buddhist traditions seem odder to them than traditions outside 

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