Dear Anthony Well, counterpart or opposite, what have you . . . they are methods at deconditioning . . . True, one through imagination, etc . . . the other, as you say black and white.
I don't really take all this finality and emphasis to heart, it wouldn't be my approach on things. I don't think zen is is particular this or that thing, to assert, tie up, finalize . . . I know you find this a great deal amongst the so called Zen crowd, particularly those who have learned it by themselves, or from books . . . which is not to say anything about anyone here . . . just something that I have noticed in those interested in Zen . . . they are as full, if not more, finalities and emphatic assessment about what Zen is as any other tradition. best wishes Kirk --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wu...@...> wrote: > > Kirk, >  > Tantric visualization is the opposite of zazen. The technique of imagination > can be compared to color TV. In contrast, unfortunately, Bill's 'just sit' is > very boring, equivalent to a black and white TV. So, anybody looking for a > spectacular carrier should practice Tantrism, including its sex rituals. >  > Anthony > > --- On Sat, 11/9/10, novelid...@... <novelid...@...> wrote: > > > From: novelid...@... <novelid...@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Other traditions > To: [email protected] > Date: Saturday, 11 September, 2010, 6:50 AM > > >  > > > > > Anthony >  > I think you have the beginnings of something. The Tantric visualization > approach and guidance along the lines of Llamaism could be seen as a > counterpart to zazen path of Zen, you are using the outward (contemplation, > meditation, etc) to reach greater inner clarity and expression . . . You > could make the case that once a certain station is reached you are zazen, you > are attention, the pure self, the selflessness of self. >  > Once again the Sufis address this over and over again within the context of > their teaching stories, meditation, action techniques, gatherings, poetry, > etc -- drinking the wine and going beyond the vessel . . . same thing as gone > gone to the other shore . . .don't need the boat anymore. >  >  > Kirk > > In a message dated 9/10/2010 2:38:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, wu...@... > writes: >  > > > > > > > Bill, >  > I am 90% in agreement with you. There are a lot of differences between > Tibetan Tantra and traditional Buddhism. The most significant is their > attitude and practice on sex rituals. On the other hand, the Tantra also has > a lot of colorful and spectacular techniques. If they help some. why not > practice them whether or not they can be consifered Buddhism >  > Anthony > > --- On Fri, 10/9/10, billsm...@... <billsm...@...> wrote: > > > From: billsm...@... <billsm...@...> > Subject: RE: [Zen] Other traditions > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, 10 September, 2010, 9:47 PM > > >  > > > > DP, >  > I myself donât consider Tibetan âBuddhismâ actually Buddhist. I > should more rightfully be classified as âLamaismâ â" with maybe some > Buddhist terminology.  Itâs chock full of superstitions, gods and spirits > and a lot of mysticism (and not just âchiâ), the most well known of which > is their belief that the Dalai Lama which is their âGod-Kingâ, and whom > they believe is a reincarnation of the former Dalai Lama clear back to an > actual âgodâ (of Compassion). >  > And donât get me started on the Dalai Lamaâ¦Bill! > > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of DP > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:49 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Zen] Other traditions > > > > > > I have a strange feeling towards other Buddhist traditions. While I find > interesting messages in reading about Christianity or even Islam and Judaism > (Hinduism I find too alien, although I love some of the imagery and > mythology), I have a sort of block against other Buddhist traditions. I can > admire somone like the The Dalai Lama, but I find Tibetan Buddhism too > esoteric. I have had a few negative experiences on chat boards with other > Buddhists in Theravada and Vajranaya traditions, where they even denigrated > Zen. Does anyone else find that other Buddhist traditions seem odder to them > than traditions outside Buddhism? > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5439 (20100910) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5439 (20100910) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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