Bill,
 
Well, I am going to assume by this that you mean what we experience with our 
physical senses. (Eye, ear, smell, taste, touch).   So from that view, a Hellen 
Keller or an autistic child or  such cannot , by definition, practice zen as 
well as you?  Or are you saying that we each have a unique awareness based on 
our sensory perception? 
 
Also, why spend time debating issues here? Is that not  an illusion as well-- 
existing as a  distraction from a purer awareness;)
 
Kristy 
 
 


--- On Sun, 10/3/10, Bill! <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote:


From: Bill! <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
Subject: [Zen] Re: Unclear on what is mind
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 3, 2010, 10:38 PM


  



Good Morning Kristy,

No, I didn't mean to suggest that qualities such as compassion, wisdom and 
equanimity arise from sensory awareness. Such concepts as these arise from your 
dualistic, rational mind. This is the mind on which DP is unclear and is 
worried about loosing. This mind is the source of all illusions, the most 
fundamental of which is the illusion of 'self'; but these illusions also 
include all concepts (definitions/names) and judgements.

The zen I practice consists ONLY of awareness of sensory experience. Nothing 
more. I call this 'Just THIS!'. It could also be called 'Buddha Mind' or 'the 
cypress tree in the garden' or (in my opinion the best of all) 'Mu!'.

EVERYTHING ELSE you may conceive of such as self/other, compassion/selfishness, 
wisdom/ignorance, good/bad, etc..., are illusory.

What I am suggesting is Just THIS!

...Bill!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain <healthypl...@...> wrote:
>
> Good Morning Bill, (well--its morning where I am),
>  
> Okay, this is one of the hairs I split with you about   what zen is or 
> isn't. I agree that our  sensory experiences are key, and it is the 
> mindful awareness of same which serve as a foundation, but compassion, 
> wisdom ,  equanimity are also part of my practice. 
>  
> Are you suggesting that these other qualities arise from sensory  
> awareness?  
>  
> Kristy 
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 10/3/10, billsm...@... <billsm...@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: billsm...@... <billsm...@...>
> Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: Unclear on what is mind
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, October 3, 2010, 4:15 AM
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DP,
>  
> In my opinion zen practice is not at all dependent upon cognitive 
> abilities.  In fact the usual beginning training is all geared to lead you 
> to the point where you stop your cognitive processes.
>  
> Zen practice is only dependent upon sensory awareness, only experiencing â€" 
> not rationalizing the experience.
>  
> …Bill!
>  
> 
> 
> 
> From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
> Of DP
> Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 3:24 AM
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Zen] Re: Unclear on what is mind
>  
>   
> 
> 
> 
> My concern then is the idea of losing the mind, either through senility or 
> dementia or mental illness. If we are stripped of our cognitive abilities, 
> then where is the mind, and how can we still practise?
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "cid830" <summitjags@> wrote:
> >
> > DP,
> > 
> > I think the concept of mind is the basis of Buddhism. From my perspective 
> > in practise, the mind is key to ultimate nirvana and the obstruction to 
> > getting there. It is the cause of our suffering and the only way to relieve 
> > that suffering. It is the reason we seek out religions to answer our 
> > questions of who we are, and the reason we still doubt no matter how much 
> > we want to believe. Through our mind we will find our Ultimate Widom, but 
> > we have to dissolve our ego and attachments, everything we have learned to 
> > distinguish us as individuals, and of those things the mind doesn't easily 
> > let go!
> > 
> > Master Bill is right, this is the Zen Forum. And Buddhism can be separate 
> > from zen, that is up for discussion. Many things can be related to zen. If 
> > you would like to discuss your views on religion with compassionate 
> > individuals, I'm sure you can find a friendly place here. And we'll find a 
> > way to relate them to zen.
> > 
> > Thank you DP, and thank you Master Bill,
> > 
> > it's good to be back.
> > 
> > Chris D 
> > 
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "DP" <wookielifeday@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Part of my fear of death is not so much of death but of senility or loss 
> > > of memory. In western terms, that's what I think of as mind. But I have 
> > > to admit, I dont know if I fully understand the Buddhist concept of mind. 
> > > Can anybody help with this?
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
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