Hi Bill:
 
You are correct, there wasn't any slap in the koan but wrote all the way 
throught to see how deep were observant eyes readers. I can see that their eyes 
are as bad as mine as you've been the only one who noticed it!.  Made me 
smile.  Thank you for pointing out.
 
I have a question:
 
If the goal of the koans is to lead the student to the non discriminative mind 
and to drop the thinking, what is the point of giving such a nonsense koans 
that leads to more entanglement in the mind?.  Is it no much more simple and 
easier to just sit down and breath in awareness of the in and out breathing?.  
In a way that everytime a thought, sensation, mental formation, any kind of 
distraction...arises one goes back to the awareness of the breathing.  
 
Mayka 


--- On Sat, 9/10/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote:


From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
Subject: RE: [Zen] New member.
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 9 October, 2010, 2:17


  





Mayka,
 
I’ve studied under both Renzai and Soto masters.  Generally speaking, Renzai 
uses koans and Soto only shikantaza (clear-mind meditation).  The culmination 
of both teachings is shikantaza.  Koans are just teaching techniques or tools 
used to help you stop your discriminating mind so you can be clearly aware of 
Buddha Nature.
 
Some Soto schools do, however, employ koans.  The teacher I ended my formal 
training with had teaching credentials (Inca) from masters in both Soto and 
Renzai schools.   He tailored his teaching techniques according to the 
student.  Since I started with his Renzai master and began koan study with him, 
he continued to use koan study with me all throughout my training.
 
To what ‘slaps’ are you referring?   I didn’t read about any ‘slaps’ to a lady 
in the koan that was posted a couple days ago. 
  
…Bill! 
  



From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Maria Lopez
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 4:19 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Zen] New member.
  
  








Thanks Jody.  Doesn't the Soto tradition uses koans?.


 


Should be understood them that slaps the lady received in the koan given,  were 
defectuos because nobody can awake anybody else except for oneselves?


 

Mayka

 

 

--- On Fri, 8/10/10, Jody W. Ianuzzi <j...@thewhitehats.com> wrote:


From: Jody W. Ianuzzi <j...@thewhitehats.com>
Subject: RE: [Zen] New member.
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 8 October, 2010, 17:10 

  




Hello Mayka,

It is my understanding that Soto Zen is just about sitting and Renzei Zen is
about koans.

When the Roshi slaps a student in Renzei it is not punishment it is to wake
them up and bring them to the moment. The student bows in gratitude for the
reminder.

JODY 




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